Your next website visitor might be an AI agent | Greg Rosner

Greg Rosner: my customers have already been burned by ai. What I mean by that is they rub the, the belly of the genie and out comes we're moving into the golden age of websites where websites are no longer for people Pitch Kitchen, fixes shitty websites I feel naked when I, when AI doesn't have a seat at the table with me robots are not responsible for Jack shit Dave: welcome to Operator Stories, the show where I sit down and talk to operators and hear their story, what they're doing in this wide, wonderful, innovative world of AI and technology transformation, and how they're seeing customer outcomes and results through this and, and just hearing more about their story. And today, I'm, I'm pleased to be joined by Greg Rosner from Pitch Kitchen. Welcome to the show, Greg. Greg Rosner: Hey, awesome to be here. Good to see you, Dave. Dave: Uh, and as I always seem to do, because I'm, I'm meeting with people from all over the world, uh, where, whereabouts am I talking to you from today? Greg? Greg Rosner: Live from New York. It's a, uh, Wednesday morning at 7:00 AM Dave: Yes. So, uh, yeah, we are recording this on a Wednesday. Uh, obviously we published the stories out on a Monday, but you are in, uh, early morning New York. I'm in late evening Sydney time. Uh, and so we're both, you know, we're both burning the candles. That's, that's great to see, uh, that we've got equal, equal skin in the game on this one. Um, but, uh, what is it, what is it the Pitch Kitchen Do does, Greg, what brought you to the show and, and can tell us a bit more about your business, uh, and, uh, what you're doing, your ideal customer and the results you're seeing. Greg Rosner: Sure. So first of all, since I'm from New York, I'm gonna curse a little bit. I hope that, uh, doesn't offend you or your, your customers and if they are, and the customers, your, your audience and if they are, well, I'm sorry. Uh, so I would say Pitch Kitchen, uh, fixes shitty websites. Dave: Mm-hmm. Greg Rosner: Uh, in a nutshell, and when I say shitty websites, websites are now, we're moving into the golden age of websites where websites are no longer for people. Therefore, the LLMs for agents, because we're moving into a world in 2027 when. When, uh, people are going to be relying more and more on their relationship with ais to make recommendations for everything that they are doing. Uh, the AI agent will likely be the first eyes on your website and under trying to understand what it is that you're offering, who it is that you're serving, why it matters, the solution that you're selling, and how it's different from other solutions out there. Dave: Mm-hmm. Greg Rosner: And so AI is doing this right now as we speak. The robots are doing this and they are our proxies for the world. So I mentioned that the, we're moving into a world of the a golden age of websites because if you look at this current state of business to business websites, most, I think most of them, in my opinion, and also we've done some research on this, most of them are not only outdated, but they are telling not the whole truth of what the company does, who they do it for. And I know this just anecdotally, you go to a business website typically, and you're like, wait a minute, what does this company do? What do they sell? Mm-hmm. Who is this for? And those are the questions that are in people's minds. And so if those are in the humans minds, those are in the AI minds as well. And so when AI is trying to answer someone's questions such as, you know, everything about me, Claude, or about my business, and give me five companies that could help us solve this challenge that we've been speaking about for the last three days. Yeah. And so Claude has all that context and then it's matching that context. It's trying to be helpful and it's trying to make three recommendations, if that's what your question is, of companies that can serve exactly what your need is. So it comes down to, since AI is trying to be helpful and AI is trying to be honest. It's going to just go on what it reads. And the one of the research, uh, things that we did, we found that more than 49% of websites had a footer that had like 2023, 2024 on the footer. Mm-hmm. And while that may not seem like an issue, I mean, that's what the robots are reading. And they're like, these are stale websites and they're not really telling the whole picture. And they're stale for a number of reasons, because CMS systems that people use to build websites like WordPress, people use HubSpot, people use Wix and Squarespace. Those are systems that are designed for a world where you need to log in, drag and drop and make decisions about every pixel. Yeah. But we're moving into a world of websites where you are not doing that anymore. Your proxy, your Claude, your Chacha PT is building out the website, managing the website. You're telling Claude, Hey, Claude, make these change. Make this one word change on all 19 pages, and it's done in a nanosecond. And so that's the world that we're moving into. I'm really excited about it because it is an opportunity for founders to tell the truth. And when I say tell the truth, you know, tell the truth about the power of their product, power of their service in a way that's clear, that is resonant, uh, when I say resonating with their ideal customers as well as resonating with the robots that are trying to be helpful. So I know that was a long winded, uh, response to your, I think, Dave: I, I think you're a hundred percent, um, on point there. And obviously, you know, that's why you're running it as a business. We were discussing this on, on our recent show saying that, you know. You in the future. People, people don't wanna log into your website application. They don't wanna log into your SaaS. They want their agent to just go get the information when they need it and bring it back. And, and websites are obviously the front door to that. And I know personally for any websites I've been building for things, making sure they've got things like the LLMs dot txc file. And so that way, and I'm seeing more other sites now, there's like a link in the footer that says, are you an agent? Um, or are you a robot? And so when you click on that, click, click here, click here if you are. Yeah. And it gives them the, the, the plain text markdown. Uh, even even the, the podcast, when we push the episodes up to our, um, I'm using a, uh, the database that runs our website. I make sure we push the transcript as markdown. And so if you go to any episode on our website and put MD at the end of the rl, Greg Rosner: but, but, but even knowing to do that and knowing to create a schema file and knowing to do it, not Dave: because, because the agents don't do that by default. You still need to ask them. Like you still need to push 'em. And I, I was, I was, and you'll relate to this, I think I've been experimenting with Cloudflare's and you CMS, so they call the WordPress spiritual success at M dash. I dunno if you guys have played with that yet. That is this brand new CMS to replace WordPress Outta the box doesn't automatically create markdown files for every page. I still had to get my rock bots to go create custom plugins for this brand new state of the art, next generation CMS to make markdown files. And I'm like, what is going on? Greg Rosner: Well, that's interesting because I found that Claude and Chatt Codex will both, they know what the robots need. Mm. And so I, a simple question in the process of, okay, we built this great site, what can we do to make sure that it's, uh, optimised for robots? Yeah. And it'll do a lot of changes including all of that by, by its nature. Dave: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think it's, um, it's, it's crazy that website building has become such a thing. So 12 months ago, the default for me when I started looking at doing some consulting stuff was gone by Squarespace. Like that's, and I did, I did. I paid a Black Friday deal, got a year of Squarespace, and then four months later it was Claude Code and everything evolved. I was like, oh, that's a sunk cost. I'm not gonna use that anymore. I'm gonna code my own custom website now and deploy that Greg Rosner: because it's, yeah, it's Dave: much better. Greg Rosner: That's a, it's a big aha moment. And every business is, should be facing the, those choices of how to do that. So there's a technical route that we recommend for migration called the Strangler Fig Migration, which is, instead of pulling the plug on WordPress on a Tuesday and starting with a by native on a Wednesday, we recommend, uh, keeping the pages, especially the pages that have SEO value. Dave: Yeah. Greg Rosner: Um, exactly the same URL. Um, but to wrap around the site, AI native CloudFlare, for example, pages that are hosted under the same, uh, routing. So it's still ww.company.com/and it's the pages, one page at a time, uh, built in the strangler fig model. Um, so anyway, I don't wanna get too technical, but I mean, we're talking about, about websites, we're talking about, um, clarity. Yeah. And when I say that, you know, people talk about, you know, our brand, oh, our brand is this, our brand is that. So first of all, brand, if you re-branding you, you have to realise that there are two faces, two sides to the coin of a brand. Mm-hmm. There's the brand that looks and looks a certain way in terms of colours, in terms of, uh, design and sensibility. And there's the other side of the coin, which is the narrative, the story, the what it is. Dave: Yeah. Greg Rosner: And those are, and the voice. And if we just talk about, you know, robots, they don't give a shit about the colours of your logo. They only care about what it is that you're selling, what it is you're talking about, and making heads or tails a sense of that. Dave: Mm-hmm. Greg Rosner: And so the, the work that I do, when I say a fixed shitty websites, it really comes down to having a conversation or several conversations with the founder, with the chief revenue officer, the chief sales officer, the chief operating officer, really meeting the people who are driving the business forward, that know the market, that have the deep insight about the business. And then I've always find a huge gap between the truth of what they know and what the bi business is. Yeah. Versus what the website is showing. This is massive chasm between Yeah. What is being presented. And that's the truth gap that I call, and I'm actually writing a book now called Tell the Truth in a World Trained on Noise And the, the, the work I do, my title is essentially a messaging therapist for founders bringing innovation to the world to help the team align on what that story is, what it should be. Mm-hmm. Based on truth, based on the actual strategy and the, the winning approach that this company takes as unique. That needs to be clearly documented, defined, written down. Because if you don't do that, you can't spawn 19 agents to do your marketing. You'll have 19 agents doing marketing on sounding just like everybody else. It will not be grounded in the truthful narrative of the business. Does that make sense? Dave: Yeah, no, that, that, that's a hundred percent. And I think people think they've gotta copy certain ways of doing things, or they, they need to make sure they've got the same words as everyone else. It's funny, my wife and I are just watching Silicon Valley, um, the series for the first time and we, we've just seen them at Tech Crunch Disrupt, where they go through and like every, every startup gets up there and talks about we're changing the world with our revolutionary product and we're social, mobile, local, and just really parody and making fun of the fact that every single startup says, makes exactly the same claims about what they do. And I think, like you said, getting to the actual truth of, of knowing what problem you solve for your customers and which customers are you solving it for. Um, I, I like that. I dunno if you, you've probably seen the work with guys like Donald Miller where he talks about StoryBrand and the cognitive load and cognitive messaging, all those headlines and making sure that when someone reads it, they don't need to think about what any of the words means. They just know what problem it solves for them. Greg Rosner: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Donald Miller is great and he definitely put the flag in the ground on, uh, how important it is to have, uh, a hero's journey story. Yeah. In any business where you're not the hero, your customer's the hero. And that is fundamental. And that storytelling model has been in place for thousands of years and it's essential. But I, I would say Donald Miller's approach, just to critique it a little bit, is a little bit like the kids' menu for businesses selling. 'cause it's not enough that you're making your customer the hero because there's a buying committee, they're trying to decide. They, meaning a group of people are trying to all decide if this is the right thing for the company. And also the robots are trying to assist in all those people. So it's much more complicated. Uh, everyone has different perspectives. So the surface area of communication needs to be much wider than just a single homepage that speaks to somebody that is losing something and needs to achieve something. Anyway, we, we, we have something called the Magnetic messaging framework. Okay. Which is a framework that we've developed that borrows some of the Hero's journey methodology, but it, it also adds other elements such as the old way versus the new way and the consequences for a world that's changed and other elements that allow salespeople and businesses to, um, not put their product first, but put their approach first. The approach that is the winning approach that their product confers advantage to. So it's a separation from we instead of we are the be it end all. It is, yeah, we help you accomplish this goal because the world has changed. They're going to be winners and they're gonna be losers. And the old way is not, doesn't work anymore. And the companies that are winning now are taking this new approach. So that's one of the models that we, we incorporate into the narrative frameworks for magnetic messaging frameworks. So, Dave: yeah. Nice. That, that, I mean, and I think that that's really true. We're talking about like all this, our revolution the way robots look at websites now, like the world is changing and people think I'm safer if I just do nothing. But they don't realise that doing nothing is actually still a choice. And there's an opportunity cost associated with that, right? Greg Rosner: Yeah. Yeah. And so, getting back to the problem, most founders, if they really are honest, they're embarrassed by their website, they're embarrassed that it doesn't really tell the truth. That is, it is the truth is covered over by a mountain of marketing mumbo jumbo that is lying to their customers, not telling the truth, the reasons their customers actually love them and will never, ever not work with them. That truth is often not on the page for the prospective customers and the robots that just don't get it. Dave: Yeah, that's, um, that's, that's amazing. Uh, just the, the depth that you're getting into by talking to all the, those, the sort of heads of departments and bringing all that and extracting that through to, you know, be more than just the FAQ. 'cause I mean, the basics is, oh, you're gonna have an FAQ. But this is like, and what you're saying, I think what's just really important for people to hear and understand is, yes, you're using agents and AI to implement some of this stuff and build the pages and, and you are making it, writing it and making it technically available for agents. But this is just traditional marketing messaging, just That's right. Good business practise and storytelling. Yeah. This is this, even if you had no ai, what you're talking about as far as these messaging principles would be really good just for normal SEO, right? Like this is just good messaging practises. Greg Rosner: That's right. Yeah. The, that's right. It's grounded in, in what works and what has always worked and what will always work in the future. And that's the gap that I'm committed to fixing, to, to helping founders do. I'm, I'm helping, you know, I'm committed to closing that gap. Um, and Bri get them an AI native website that, uh, the authorised people in their company could publish, uh, tens of pages per day. Uh, for example, the Pitch Kitchen website had eight pages on in February of 2026. Dave: Mm-hmm. Greg Rosner: And I hated our website. I hated it. I had to, like, I never wanted to do anything with it. I had a login, had a, I was like, Ugh. Dave: Yeah. Greg Rosner: And, uh, now Pitch Kitchen website has, I think last count, 891 pages. Dave: Whoa. Greg Rosner: And, uh, because I have an AI agent that I spawned in July, named June. And June is writing every day, three blogs, three articles, thought leadership articles, that is, um, helping with AI visibility. And what I realised is now, um, when I use p eec.ai software, peak AI software, I could tell the growth of our AI visibility over the past nine months. And we're coming up, you know, many, many more times higher in re being recommended by Perplexity Claw Chat, pt, Google Gemini, whatever. Um, because the surface area of our truth and what we do and how we do it is much wider than it was back in February. And so that what led me to this realisation that I could actually help businesses move the needle in being, having visibility with artificial intelligence. Um, I could easily double that AI visibility in 90 days from the narrative and website development work that we would do. Yeah. Uh, that's just a byproduct of what we would do. And so I decided to make that a guarantee that we can guarantee that in 90 days. Um, or we'll keep on working until it does. Dave: Yeah. I I saw that on your site. I thought it was That's a good, that's a big claim, a meaty claim, um, eight or 900 pages on your website that, that's wild. That, that like, there's Greg Rosner: Yeah, but you have to realise it's not for humans. Dave: It's not, yeah. Right. Like how much it's Greg Rosner: not for human too. Dave: How much overlap is in there? Like if she's writing three thought leadership articles on, on marketing messaging and, and site readiness for robots. Yeah. How much original content Greg Rosner: can there be? Well, it's, it's interest. Yeah. So it's, first of all, it's not for human consumption necessarily. Yeah. Right. That's all. It's for robot consumption. So you have menus and Dave: footers Greg Rosner: for every Dave: and, and Greg Rosner: links every, so, so. No. So all those 891 pages are not on the menu, the footer. I'm very selective of what pages humans should, uh, be able to see on the navigation and on the, on the footer. Dave: Yeah. Uh, Greg Rosner: but, um, what was the question? I'm sorry. Dave: No, no, just, just saying like, like, uh, like is there much repetition in that and just different Greg Rosner: phrasing. Yeah. So, yeah, that's right. That's right. The repe the repetition. So, um, I, I make it really, it's really important to me to, first of all the conversation about, uh. Uh, narrative and, uh, sales enablement and marketing enablement and all the different pieces of a business that need to get their heads around how they could, should be communicating with customers through email, through LinkedIn, through, uh, proposals. Every part of sales and marketing is underneath what we do. It's like what we do is at the top level of the business, like we are working with the chief storyteller, the chief Executive Officer. We are working at the top of the business and everything we do trickles down. So the, there's a very wide surface area of possible things to talk about regarding the multiple industries that we would serve. Mm-hmm. Or you would serve regarding the different approaches that can be taken, the pros and cons of different approaches, the, the best, uh, alternatives to different approaches like there. Once you start going down the road with your AI of what can we talk about thought leadership wise in the industry, it becomes a huge cavern of content possibilities that you are selectively deciding or you're training your agent to gravitate towards, like top of funnel, mid funnel, and bottom of funnel kind of conversations that prospective customers are having with ais. Dave: Interesting. Interesting. It's, it's, it's wild. I mean, uh, 'cause the old trick used to be the SEO keyword stuffing, where you'd have to put every suburb in every town and and village that you wanted to serve Greg Rosner: with its own page. So keyword stuff, right? So I don't believe that we can game the system anymore. No. I think the days of SEO like, oh, we can game it. Those days are gone. Yeah. We're not as intelligent. I'm sorry, as the ais I'm, maybe, I'm very optimistic that it will be all be okay, but I make no mistake that there's no way that we could game the system. The only thing our responsibility going forward is to tell the truth about what we do. And that is hard to do because the systems are sluggish. The people have been using for years. They're, the way that they're working is like, oh, that's, we just have to get our web development guy, or, oh, we have to do this. Like, no. The whole process of like how you get things done is changing and businesses are all scrambling now to like, figure out, how do I incorporate AI into the job? How do I get my people to use ai? Do they even want to, do they feel like they're even incented to be more productive, you know, to 10 x their work, they're not being paid 10 x more. So like, there's all sorts of problems going on now with people, us humans, adapting to changing how we work. It's very uncomfortable. It's very messy. AI is not good everywhere. It breaks, it, it fails. It is, it is good, amazing in certain things and terrible and other things, but knowing where it is and how, like all of that is happening now, all of it. And it's very messy. And I, I, I feel like part of my mission is not only to help these founders fix their shitty websites, but also to help them adopt an AI native strategy in how they're getting it done. And so, uh, to that point, I decided to create a free workshop on Tuesdays at 4:00 PM. Called the AI Workforce Clinic. Mm-hmm. Where founders can come with one job and they leave in 45 minutes with a prompt that will spawn an AI agent that can run on any of their, on any of their favourite LLMs. Yeah. Um, and that's been really successful and really enjoying, uh, seeing founders come to that. And also, I have a paid cohort on Fridays where the, the, these CEOs come and do a lot of show and telling of exactly what they're doing with their AI agents. And by the way, in this podcast, I'm happy to show you on my screen my 10 AI agents, what they look like, what they're doing every day, what, you know, that June, June is the name of my, uh, grand scribe. June is writing articles every day, and I can show you what June looks like and what June's job description is and all of that. But Dave: alright. Greg Rosner: We don't have to go there. I'm just saying that's option. Dave: Well, we'll, we'll see how we go when, when we get to the toys Bit, uh, in Greg Rosner: a little bit's. The toys bit the toys. Cats. Dave: I, I am keen, uh, if you, if you wanna do some show and tell, but I, you've, you've, I think you've sort, sort of let us know a little bit as, as you sort of told your story there, but you've sort of stumbled into becoming an AI business. Um, yes. Because you, you saw the, the gains for yourself and now you're extending those and making those AI promises to your customers. Yes. Like what, what has been your journey as a business, um, into getting into ai? Greg Rosner: Yeah, so I think here we are, is it October of 2026? If you go back October, 2025. This is when I think Open Claw was the first quote agent or agentic thing that came out open source. And I jumped on that. I got an iMac. I installed that shit on the iMac, and, and I spent many a nights babysitting the hell out of Open Claw. And I, and I wanted to go down that rabbit hole just so that I could learn like, what are the boundaries of what you can get an agent to do. Mm-hmm. So it broke, it broke all the time, and I was very frustrated. And I, I found, fast forward to February of 2026, um, I was really frustrated with that. I would see every day emails from Tara, Tara was the name of my agent. Tara would email me every day with all the blocks and all the challenges and all the keys that didn't work. And it just became absolute nightmare. Dave: Yeah. Greg Rosner: And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna give this a pause and try Claude Code, which somebody, a friend of mine, Sabrina Romanoff, who is really a wonderful person and very vocal on helping people adopt ai. She's like, for months she was saying to me, you know, get onto Claude Code. And the big thing is I was afraid to move into away from a browser, into a harness that's on my machines. Yeah. And so I, I, I was resistant to that. Uh, in terms of people being sluggish to change. I'm a person and I'm sluggish to change too. Dave: Yeah. And, and Claude code being in the terminal is, is that extra level of daunting, right. Greg Rosner: Well, I hated terminal. I still do. I get, you know, uh, PTSD from being in terminal. And so I tell Claude, I, I don't wanna be in your terminal. Please do not make me go there. Do everything you can. So I do not have to go into terminal. And Claude is very nice about that. So Claude Co. Claude Code was my first, like, that's where I created Tara, Sarah, Molly, Bob, spike, uh, these are my AI agents that run now 24 7. I created them. And these agents are essentially on folders on my, uh, Google Drive that are named. And, uh, when I started, you know, maxing out my tokens and like, oh shit, I'm at the limit. I'm at the $200 a month plan and I'm hitting the red zone. I'm like, I need more juice. I need more electricity. So then I installed clo uh, OpenAI Codex, which is the counter, it's the Coke and Pepsi, right? It's the other one. And I was like, wow. You know, codex, do you know my agents? Do you know Molly? Do you know Tara? Do you know Sally? I'm like, oh yeah, of course we know. We've seen everything they've done. There's a handoff file that I can read. Yeah, I can jump into your workbench and just keep on working. I was like, oh my God. Like, boom. Like now AI is just, it's electricity, it's Coke and Pepsi. It's like whatever you wanna plug in, whatever model makes the most sense, run with it. And I found that there's a big difference between some, what the model's capable of doing. For example, Claude Code is great for video editing. Chacha PT code X is not chat chacha. BT is great for image, image creation. Claude is not, Claude is much better at, at high level copywriting, strategic messaging than Claude Code, than than open AI codex. So these like differences started to become very apparent to me. 'cause I've been doing a shit tonne of work for my customers on both of these. And, uh, so, but, but the long and long and short of that story is all of it works. All of it's great, but the real investment of time is not deciding on which model to use, but deciding how you're working with it and building the, I think it's called a harness, which is building the, the file and folder structure infrastructure that is supporting all the ais that you plug into it, which is yours. It's your proprietary confidential information. Like any business that says, oh, we wanna adopt AI for 2027, if they do not have a single source of truth, a codified document with just their standard operational procedures, who they are, what they sell to their voice, they do not have that. And by the way, most businesses don't have that shit yet. Yeah. If they do not have that, they are not ready to even, to start using agents for their business because the agents don't have anything to go on. They're gonna make shit up. Dave: Yeah, a a hundred percent. I'm, uh, one of the, uh, companies we've had on the show, uh, is called Nobi, and they specialise in helping teams, record processes, take in all those documents and, and transcribing it, breaking down into workable blocks, giving staff QR codes so they can scan and get just in time information on the, on the SOPs, and really sort of trying to help people get all the systems and processes in place. 'cause they know a, the people need it. 'cause it's just good business practise. But plus then as you bring agents in, then you can give these training documents to the agents to then pick up and learn and run those processes. Greg Rosner: So let, let's fast forward to now. So this is Fieldy. I wear Fieldy on my neck. Okay. And, uh, you know, it's an AI note taker. It's not recording now because I think you're recording. I I should have hit record on it 'cause otherwise I have no transcript of this conversation. But the idea of recording what we're talking about during the day in our meetings, in our whiteboard sessions, and then I have my agents through an MCP, after each meeting's over, they're reading through like, oh, Greg had a meeting about this. What do I know about this? What can I act on based on this, the whole like, process of writing proposals, the whole process of building websites after decisions have been made, you know, through conversation. That whole thing, like collapses in time so that an hour after a meeting happens, we have like, published work. And that would be a week or two weeks, like a year ago. Dave: Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, one of the, you've said a few times, uh, agents don't have context unless you give it to them. And I think, you know, um, and I talk about people have ambient context 'cause we're alive in the world and we hear things. We see things, we, we connect dots. I suppose the closest thing you can get to giving an agent sort of your ambient context is that daily transcript from your, your wearable. Right, Greg Rosner: right, right. And I I, I turn it off when I'm with my wife. I'm turning off when I'm with my children. Dave: I'm, I'm Greg Rosner: sure she Dave: appreciates that. Don't, Greg Rosner: I don't want that. But I'm not, I like to have it on, you know, when I'm doing whiteboard sessions that aren't fully transcribed, like, you know, Dave: yeah. Greg Rosner: There's maybe, um, you know, participants, you know, in the room and not, uh, it's, it's real. Dave: Yeah. And I, I do hate when I, I, I have a, an important call and I forget to fire, use granola a little bit, and I forget to run granola, and I'm like, oh, no, now I've got no transcript. Now I've gotta write it down. I've gotta, I feel naked. I've gotta get the old, the old notebook out and then put some notes down and tell my agents what happened in that meeting. 'cause they're gonna ask me. Greg Rosner: Yeah, no, I feel naked when I, when AI doesn't have a seat at the table with me. Uh, because it's my bodyguard, it's my support, it's helping me run my business. Um, and I'm ever grateful for that. Dave: I'm, I'm, I'm grateful for that soundbite, which will be going at the start of the episode as a teaser about you feeling naked without ai. That's brilliant. Um, so, um, so your business, you, you brought in cloud code. You, you started creating this sort of fleet of agents and you saw that productivity gains in your business, and you went, well, we are already dealing with clients, so 'em, with their messaging, we can then accelerate that using this as well, Greg Rosner: right? And help them stand up agents for their business, for their, you know, marketing their webinars, marketing, doing research, doing outreach. All of those systems that they have, quote under sales enablement and marketing enablement, all of those systems need to be updated and they don't have to use us to do it. I have a model called Open Kitchen. So after the initial sprint that we do for four weeks or six weeks to nail their message with their team, facilitate that truth out. Once we've got that codified, we've got the AI brand twin, uh, done, then we move into the open kitchen model, which is a retainer model, typical agency model. But that model, open Kitchen is where we decide what agents they need built, you know, deploy, how we could help them become an AI native, uh, business for sales and marketing so that they could. Connect better with their prospects. Dave: So, so one of the questions that comes up often, uh, talking to various businesses that are sort of doing this sort of AI type support work for, for other companies is will AI take all the jobs? Uh, and I'm curious on two, two questions for you. Have you had to put on new staff in order to have that more AI focus and, and AI support, or did your existing staff pick that up and do you see this taking jobs from your customers? Greg Rosner: So, yeah, so the answer is no. I haven't added staff, but I really want to. Dave: Mm-hmm. Greg Rosner: I want to, and I want to it once my sales, my growth growth, and by the way, sales happens at human speed. It happens at the, at the speed of two people, you know, trust each other enough. So I'm going to give you money and you're gonna deliver some shit for me. That happens at an ancient slow, very slow speed. So my business has grown, uh, about, it has grown very much this week. I, this, this year from 2025 to 2026, I, I have to do some of the, the, the numbers. I don't wanna over claim what that growth is, but it is much better than it was last year. Dave: Yeah. Greg Rosner: But it's not enough that I would, what I want to hire people to do what I do. Yeah. Which is at the top level, do that facilitation with other humans to pull out the truth of from their teams and do the research with them mm-hmm. Vocally, and then get all of that knowledge and insight into the development work that my strategic narrative work does. I wanted to go that very badly, and so that will be my growth. But that only happens with, you know, a lot more business because. I can now, like two years ago, I did have to hire some people to do website development. I had to hire people to do, um, design and copywriting. Mm-hmm. I do not have to hire those people now. Yeah. But I do want to hire people that are, uh, facilitators, sort of messaging therapists. Um, yeah. That's, that's where I want to grow. So does that make sense in terms of my business? And, but in terms of answering your question, like do I think that there's gonna be like a SaaS apocalypse and Dave: Well, well, I, I'm, I suppose like, like people are like, like if you are putting agency in at customers, are you like reducing their head count? Or are, are you seeing that, or is it too early? Eight Greg Rosner: old? I'm, I'm not seeing, yeah. I'm not seeing reducing head count because they still have people that they trust to get stuff done. Yeah. And the agents need babysitting as as great as they are. And they ba they need babysitting and they need, uh, refinement. Uh, it's almost like they, the, the person who does the work in the company need now needs to shift their role to the person who manages the work and oversees the work and is at the end of the day, responsible for that work. 'cause robots are not responsible for Jack shit. They're not gonna take accountability. And they'll be like, oh, you're absolutely right. I messed up on that. So sorry. Dave: That was Greg Rosner: my bad. That's not, that's, that's my bad. That's not accountability. Yeah. That's not accountability. Dave: The, the important part is that you've, you've, you've called me out on it, like, Greg Rosner: yeah. That's a fair hit. Yeah, that's a fair hit, you would say. Uh, but business, you know, businesses, I would say CEOs, they want to have people that they trust to grow their business to mm-hmm. To think about, to, to bring all the years of experience and taste and judgement that their staff has about their customers, about their approach, about their methodology. All that is valuable stuff. Dave: Yeah. Greg Rosner: That said, they're probably not interested in hiring very junior level people to do, you know, basic stuff because AI can do a lot of that, which then begs the question, how does somebody, you know, eventually get into those businesses as a apprentice, for example. Yeah. Yeah. I think there is a path for that and, and I think that's the apprenticeship path is that path. Um, but, uh, the, the way, yeah, I think, yeah, I think I've said enough. Dave: I I, I, I've certainly spoken to people who, that I've seen businesses that that've worked with not hire administrative roles and hire sort of revenue generating roles because the, the robots can do a lot of the administrative stuff and I suppose the parallel and, and one of my other kosher hosts, Richard talks about this all the time, like the typing pools. You don't go in an office and see a typing pool of sort of ladies sitting there typewriters anymore. Like that was an administrative clerical job that no longer exists. Yeah. 'cause technology's moved on. And so some of those other administrative roles, but, uh, I was talking to Corey, who's, uh, uh, engineering manager and, uh, the, the next concern is things like software engineers and junior software engineers. How do they come up the ladder? Especially 'cause these, these robots are writing so much code, let alone, you know, websites and, and revenue and marketing plans and, and other content. So it is something that I think as you know, businesses like you and I are out there talking to customers. We we're thinking about what is that? Um. Uh, what, uh, what's the, the plan when you pass onto the next generation? That, um, continuity. Like that, that whole, Greg Rosner: yeah. The passing tribal knowledge onto Dave: to, uh, succession. Succession. Greg Rosner: Oh, succession. Okay. Dave: Yeah. Yeah. Like what is a succession plan for for staff to the next layer down and, and younger people. Yeah. I mean, and you know, that Circle Life. Greg Rosner: I have a friend who's a lawyer in a law firm in New York City, and I think law firms, big law firms in New York City face that really big problem. Yeah. Because the top level partners that, you know, really experienced lawyers that do the deals and do the negotiations, they have a lot of insight and knowledge about how to run these things so that they work out okay. And, but, you know, the previous model is they, they throw down all the grunt work to these, you know, paralegals that, uh, work their way up over time to become partners. But that whole model is getting disrupted because these partners no longer go to these, uh, younger, typically younger. Uh, Dave: yeah. I mean, if they, if they made suits today, it would look completely different because Harvey would never have hired Mike. He just would've asked Claude or Greg Rosner: Harvey. Yeah. So, so what, what is the, what's the, uh, you know, how these law firms gonna stay afloat? I don't know. It's not my, it's not my problem to solve right now. Of course. So, Dave: no, no. So, all right. That's, that, that, that's really interesting. It sounds like you're doing some interesting work there with Pitch Kitchen and, and I love the way that you're actually solving analogue problems with modern tools. 'cause I think too many people think AI is magic. It's the little genie. I'm just gonna rub it and it's gonna make me a magical new website and everything's better. But Greg Rosner: yeah. Dave: What I've heard from you is that it's actually that traditional storytelling, marketing messaging work that you invest in, that you've got some proprietary Greg Rosner: knowledge around. Right. And so, my, my customers have already been burned by ai. What I mean by that is they rub the, the belly of the genie and out comes a new website and they're like, wow, this looks amazing. This is beautiful. Six months go by, sales does not move an inch. Dave: Mm-hmm. Greg Rosner: Nothing, nothing moves. And they're like, well, wait a minute. I used ai, ai, like did this amazing website. It's beautiful. But there's something about the message. Yeah. The message is not resonating. Uh, 'cause you know, the message that Claude comes up with for your business, if it's not trained on the context, is going to be trained on, uh, 20 years of marketing mumbo jumbo from companies like Theranos and Enron and companies that, you know, did a very good job at bullshit. Uh, and that's what LLMs have been trained on. Dave: Yeah. And, and even if you use tools like, uh, Versal released is a agent.com, which goes and does a full review and, and crawl your site to find out, um, that won't necessarily vet how good your messaging is. That just vets, can the agent navigate and work out what you say you are. Right. It doesn't say you're saying that the right things about who you are, but it says, can I work out who it is Greg Rosner: for free on my website, pitch kitchen.com? You can get a free brand signal score, which scores, uh, your, the, your story based on 19 different vectors. And also AI visibility, given what you're saying. Like, who is coming up when a buyer asks this question, uh, without naming you, Dave: you Greg Rosner: know, who's coming up. And so it's like a truth. It's like a mirror, mirror on the wall. Who is the fairest? One of all, it's, it's a little bit of a mirror to hold up, uh, to founders so they can see the truth and then we can help them close that gap. Dave: Alright, brilliant. That's, and that's, uh, your website, which we'll link after the show. Like, it'll be in the description if you wanna find Get Kitchen. Um, and we'll, we'll link all that. So, okay. That's, that's with Awesome. Let, let's move into the fun bit and the toys. Um, toys and, and so, so what, what are some of the pro personal productivity, the business productivity tools? Uh, is there any show and tell you you want to do, or, I mean, I, I noticed you had a, um, some guy called Howie messaging me about like scheduling the podcast. Greg Rosner: So Howie is my 11th AI agent, and Howie is a AI agent that I did not build. Um mm-hmm. Howie is a, a paid service howie.ai, and I didn't build it because I tried to build it and it worked okay. But, um, it, it really wasn't, it was breaking a lot. Yeah. And I didn't wanna go into the, the business of creating a bulletproof agent that could help book meetings. So I, I'm paying for Howie still. Uh, maybe that'll change in the future, uh, but it's not very much and it's worth it. Okay. Um, but my, not my 10 other AI agents, which I wanted to share on my screen, um, I can't share because of a computer issue, rather the technical. Yeah. But, uh, but, um, those agents, uh, yeah, they all, uh, I know their job descriptions and they're working every day on stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Molly is my chief of staff. Molly reads all my emails. I'm moving out of my inbox now. I've been addicted to emails as most people are like, oh, you know what's in my inbox. Yeah. Molly is managing that now. And, you know, drafting replies based on everything that Molly knows, which is everything about the client, about the business, all the previous conversations. So, um, I am, my own journey in using these agents is, uh, you know, step by step earning, having them earn the my trust by doing the right things every day better and better. And that's a slow process for everybody. We all need to do that. Dave: Yeah. So, and you've got, you've got 10, uh, and like, why 10? Like, like, like what is your, your delineation of tasks? Is it, is it by sort of vertical, like horizontal Greg Rosner: sort of specialist? Yeah, it basically, yeah, it grew. So, you know, I have Tara that's doing research on signals for ideal businesses and, and customers. I've got Sarah who's doing some outreach, some email outreach, a very targeted based on Tara's research. Um, I've got, June, who I mentioned before, is writing blogs every day, articles, insights. Um, and so I built these like job descriptions over time based on the kind of ideal, you know, seal team that I wanted to create for my business if they were people, like if I had unlimited money to hire people, this is, this is the job description that I'd have for them. And, uh, I've started maturing in what they do because I noticed that they were doing kind of like the same work each day, and this was happening for a couple months. I'm like, you know what, uh, I decided to put in a recursive loop in the job description so that every day they run like diagnostics of how well they performed with their goals. Mm-hmm. And what can they improve in their own script to change that? I approve, to make it so that they do better work each day. And if they come up with ideas for the business that based on they know the mission of the business to please recommend those ideas as a modification for their particular task. So that has almost created a co collaborative, co intelligent coexistence with my team that I, I'm grateful for because that's allowing this almost a singularity of, of, uh, development to happen. Dave: Yeah. So, and, and, and like when, uh, just to, to get into the nerdy details because, 'cause I'm really curious, um, you said you run them in Claude code or you run them in Codex. So are they all in one sort of master folder? So you open up the root folder and then Greg Rosner: Yeah. Dave: That, that Claude or Codex agent is basically swapping hats and pretending to be the different people, um, all in one sort of Greg Rosner: conversation. So I, I put it on a Google Drive is where all the files are and it's backed up with GitHub. GitHub is where it puts all the code for website stuff. But I let Claude decide what it puts on GitHub, what it back, you know, I say Claude let my system Yeah. The agent, the model. Yeah. Um, but everything, like if my laptop blows up or whatever, hit by a bus, like I know I've got everything backed up with Google Drive. Yeah. And also if tomorrow there's another LLM that just, you know, a frontier model that just arrives on the scene, I'm like, you know, you know, let me add it, like bring it off. Dave: Yeah. You just point it to your folder and wake it up. Dave: Yeah. Greg Rosner: Wake it up. And Dave: so, Greg Rosner: yeah. So the, the I image that I have from my bench is I have these 10 agents that are, have like jobs to do and they're on the bench. Dave: Yeah. Greg Rosner: And on the bench, the skills that I have about 25 or 30 custom skills that we built from our projects and methodologies, and each of the agents can grab any of those skills if they wanted to. They're on the workbench, but the, the electricity that powers my agents, you know, the food or the consciousness, whatever metaphor you want to use. The brain. The brain, yeah. That comes from the frontier models from, you know, Claude or Chacha PT or, and now I started last three weeks using Muse from Meta Dave: Okay. Greg Rosner: To play with. And, and Muse is completely like plugged in right now to my whole infrastructure. And I'm now experimenting with where Muse is good. Where Muse is better and or worse. Dave: Yeah. Me muse isn't available down here yet. Um, but I have heard, you know, all the horror stories of it, telling people where to buy, pick up microwaves on Facebook marketplace and stuff, and sharing address and stuff. So it's obviously the horror stories and you've just gotta make sure you lock down the right information when you bring in new agents into the mix. Right. Greg Rosner: Yeah. Uh, and that it's that trust building, uh, that agents need to earn our trust. Dave: Yeah. Um, 'cause yeah, the road model could, could do very bad things very, very quickly. Um, it's good that you have the backups. You can always like roll back right from a, from a GitHub commit or something. It's just, if they go and send information out onto the, the broader web, that's hard to, uh, Greg Rosner: yeah, that's right. There's a word that I, I learned from the LLMs called Blast Radius. Dave: Yes. Greg Rosner: So they have, they, there's a, there's a, a barometer, there's a measurement of like, okay, Greg, you're asking me to do this, and if we do it wrong, the blast radius is pretty big. So are you sure you wanna do this? Like, please authorise, like, you wanna do this. So Dave: yeah, I've, I've had a few things that sort of pre-production and I'm like, there's zero blast radius. No one knows about this. It's completely below the line. Just push, just push to main. I don't care. Just, just, just do it. Greg Rosner: Yeah. Dave: Um, that's true because it does ask that. No, no, that, that's great. I mean, I, um, I use Hermes as my main sort of, sort of Greg Rosner: mm-hmm. Dave: Model container. Where I can bring in, you know, grok or OpenAI or whatever. Um, and I, I went through a period where I tried to isolate them as actually strictly separate little people for, and I had like 30 people and it was too much. A bit like your open core experience where the logins kept breaking and disconnecting and reauthorized this. And it was, it was too much. So I've gone back to your model where, like for my different business properties, like the podcast is its own thing versus consulting versus other ventures I'm running. Um, but in there I've got, I know I went with the DC hero name, so I've got, Lex is my money guy. I've got Lois is the researcher, uh, KA on marketing, et cetera. Superman's good at analytics 'cause he's got x-ray vision. Uh, so I've got, I've got my roster of people and the, the model just goes and switches hats. And so we can go, okay, Lois says this, but now keep, like Clark said this and Alexa said this. And that's how it sort of shares that information between them all. And it works really, really effectively. It's crazy how good it is at just roleplaying different agents. Greg Rosner: Got it. I think I managed to solve my, my screen share. Do you see my screen now? Dave: Yeah, let's bring it up. Yeah. Hey, look at you. Greg Rosner: Yeah. So there are, uh, you know, a depiction Dave: on this screen. Fancy dashboard with little animated radar graphics. Look at you, Gar. Greg Rosner: Yeah. And so I decided this 'cause I'm a very visual person and I needed a way to just visualise all this chaos that's going on. Dave: Marketing person being visual. Shocker. Greg Rosner: Yeah. So I need that. That's a, that's my crutch. Of course, AI don't need a visual like this. I need Dave: it. No. Greg Rosner: So, Dave: um, anyway, that's very fun. I I love all these visual things because they, they, they are fun and the AI work without them, but, um, I, I had one at one point where I had like little pixel office workers, so as little subagents, sometimes things got spun up. Little little people would just sit at desks and be like, Greg Rosner: yeah, yeah. Dave: Just so I could see what was happening in the background. Yeah. Because like, I'm waiting for you to respond, what's happening? And you see like three little workers pop out and Greg Rosner: Yeah. Robots, it's, it's just for us humans that need to visualise all this, all that that's happening, uh, you know. Yeah. AI robots think differently than us. Dave: Un unfortunately, and you've probably seen this, I see this like on, on platforms like X especially, you get those hype videos, but they're just fabricated fake video dashboards that are kind of like yours on, on like a million steroids with just funky animations and crazy graphs and things flashing and flushing and just that whole digging people that fomo and think, oh, I need to know your secret magic that you're making a million dollars on, on crypto every, every night with your crazy and animated dashboards. Right? Greg Rosner: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I don't, I don't see it that way. It's, um, I don't think there's, um, there's a, there's a. Dave: There's no money Greg Rosner: printer fast, a fast money printer? I don't think so. I think, uh, I think the way we sell today in 19, in 2026 is the same as it is in 1926. It's built on trust. And now maybe more than ever since people look at something and they're like, is that real? Is that not real? I think that trust is now becoming even more important, uh, than it was in 2000 to, to have with, with actual people that are vouching for you and recommending you. And, uh, so I mean, that's a harsh thing for me to recognise because I kind of wish that AI would come to like, save us from the drudgery of actually having to get in that messy stage of actually, you know, buying dinners and drinks and all that stuff. What, Dave: what's the line like running a business would be great if you didn't have to worry about employees and customers. Greg Rosner: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So Dave: that's not Greg Rosner: changing. Dave: It's um. Yeah, amazing to hear your story and, and what you're doing and, and how you are using those old principles with the new technology and helping bring other customers on board to leverage new technologies to do old things, um, more effectively. So I think that's, that's a really, really powerful story and, and a good way to, to wrap up the episode there, I think. Um, thank you Greg. I really appreciate your time. Like this has been hopefully very impactful for people. You talk about that realness and authenticity, doing these sort of long form live conversations. AI avatars can't hold up under this sort of stuff, I don't think yet. That's the reason I do my, the other live show as well. There's no way AI's making that up. Greg Rosner: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. No, I I, I really enjoyed this conversation with you, Dave, and, um, thank you. No, Dave: no, thank, thank, thank, thank you for reaching out. It's, um, always good to, to just learn what other people are doing, especially on the other side of the world, uh, and just hear that even though there's thousands of kilometres apart, customers and businesses all kind of the same everywhere. So, uh, good, good reminder. So Greg, where do people find you? Um, who do you service? Do you service globally? Are you just, uh, focusing on the states? Like, like what do people do if they wanna Greg Rosner: hear more? Yeah, so pitch pitch kitchen.com and I'd love to open up an office in Melbourne or Sydney. So absolutely, we, we definitely can work with customers down, down under, as you guys say. No, it's Mike, but you know, we, we also have a couple customers in Europe and Italy and in Austria. Uh, so I, I think Europe is very, you know, a little bit behind, uh, United States in terms of AI adoption. And so I'm, I'm, I have my eyes on Europe for the future to support, uh, founders growing there. But, uh, yeah, you could find out everything you want for about us@pitchkitchen.com and get your brand signal score and, um, you can see our pricing and see how we work. All, all 891 pages are there for people to read if you wanted to. Dave: I'll, I'll, I'll send my, uh, my open AI dot Hamilton to go have a read. I got Greg Rosner: Hamilton. How do you, like, how do you like Hamilton? How do you like your dot? Dave: Yeah, it's good. I mean, I called him Hamilton 'cause he works nonstop. Um, and he writes like he's running out of time. I off some of the, uh, the musical lines in, in, in his persona. Um, they're good. Good just because it's unlimited for now at the moment, like, while it's still unlimited, I'm just pumping as much work through it as I can and not using my Codex quota through him at all. But I'm also using Grock bot as well. Um, and I'm really liking the Grock bot where you can have multiple different, different personas and different work streams that you can work and they, they message and talk to each other. Um, and then I've got a, a project board called Plane that they talk to each other through. So, so my rock bots can leave work for Hamilton and Hamilton can do work and then put it back and they can review it. So I've got this sort of like different models checking each other's work. It's very fun. Greg Rosner: Yeah. That's, that's brilliant. I'm glad to hear that you're having good experience with Dot and uh, rock Bot. Dave: No, it's um, and like, like, like you said before we went live, disclaimer, all this will probably be out of date, uh, in three months time if you find this in the YouTube archives. But, uh, it was real and relevant as we said it. Um, brilliant. Well, well thank, thank you Greg. Uh, for people that are watching this show, if this is your first operator story and you caught up with us 'cause you love Greg and you just wanted to see him have a chat, we'd love you to hang around and watch more of our great content here on the show. Mondays, we post operator stories. Wednesdays we have our live panel show and on Friday I post field notes, which are small micro lessons, things I've learned, just my own experiences and little wins I've had during the week just to share and just help encourage people to experiment and try new things. So, uh, please, it's 2026. You shouldn't have to say it, but I have to say it like, subscribe, hit the bell icon, uh, drop in comment and say We love you, Greg. Whatever it is. Comments are also really good just to help the algorithm get out there and tell more people about Greg and his story and what he's doing with Pitch Kitchen, which I think is incredible and I want more people to hear about it so you can grow and hide some stuff. Greg Rosner: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Uh, honoured to be here and, uh, yeah, keep on rocking in the free world. Dave: Brilliant. All right, well thank you Greg. Thank you everyone. We'll see you next time.