Your AI Stack Needs Boundaries, Not Just Better Models.

[00:00] Dave Pengelley: Uh uh. [00:04] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, it's funny talking about laptops and hardware and everything. I've just realized, I don't know why it's taken me so long to realize this, but I could upgrade the RAM on my laptop. [00:16] Shawn Hain: Yes. [00:16] Dave Pengelley: And uh and I don't have like my laptop's a few years old, so it only needs DDR4. So I don't need the impossible to buy DDR5. DDR4 is still Xier than I would like, but it's possible. Um I've been [00:30] Shawn Hain: Buy it off a shop from a shop. [00:31] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes. Um, and I was I and I was looking at it and I'm like, uh I don't want to pull my laptop apart to find out the details. I'm like, oh, with this little model laptop and with Windows, can I find it find out if I've got one stick or two sticks of DIMMS and stuff? I was like, Yeah, if you just go into the task manager, go to memory, it'll tell you. I'm like, what? It shows me two slots. I'm like, that's excellent. Now I know I don't I can't just buy one extra 16 gig stick because it's using two eights. So if I want to upgrade, I need to buy [01:00] Shawn Hain: Two [01:00] Dave Pengelley: You [01:00] Shawn Hain: sixteens [01:00] Dave Pengelley: know, [01:01] Shawn Hain: or a thirty-two. [01:01] Dave Pengelley: 216s or a 32 or 232s, that'd be nice. [01:05] Shawn Hain: Yeah, that that [01:06] Dave Pengelley: So [01:06] Shawn Hain: that would be the ideal, especially now Windows can handle that. Um we won't talk about the days where it can't. [01:12] Dave Pengelley: yeah. So I'm I'm strongly considering that. And I found out my my laptop has a second SSD slot. So I could actually, you know, throw another terabyte in there to upgrade the 500 gig that I've got. Um, because at the moment I've got a I've got an old, old like SATA HDD and a CADD process. Plugged into my router as a NAS [01:31] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [01:32] Dave Pengelley: device. [01:32] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [01:33] Dave Pengelley: So I archive stuff out onto that terabyte. [01:37] Shawn Hain: Yeah [01:37] Dave Pengelley: But [01:37] Shawn Hain: I've got um I've actually got one of those sitting on a shelf that I never plugged into the network we moved here. I think it's media storage. [01:45] Dave Pengelley: yeah. Yeah, I found when I found out my ASUS router had USBs and I could do that. [01:51] Dave Pengelley: So it's got a Sandba share on it, and I can um just map it and drag stuff to it. So if I want to archive things, that's useful. But having a second SS In my laptop for building projects and development things on would be handy because as you know, every time you do an NPM run dev and it downloads all the millions of node modules, there's a couple of gig gone. [02:13] Shawn Hain: Yeah. Easy. [02:14] Dave Pengelley: Over and over again. And you know, I'm doing all the podcast pipeline for this and downloading all the media files, and then I'm like, uh [02:21] Shawn Hain: Yeah. I I have I have filled up more than one computer. That was actually one I crashed completely because of a log file that didn't stop growing. So the solution. I think this was a Windows machine I was building on, and [02:33] Dave Pengelley: Yep. [02:33] Shawn Hain: yeah, it was boot into secure mode so that it could actually start. [02:37] Dave Pengelley: Wow. Yeah, I had that on I had that on a Mac at work like a many, many, many years ago. My Mac filled up and would not boot. This is an old Intel MacBook Pro. And I took it to the help desk. It was a work laptop. I took it down to the IT guys, and they basically said, Yeah, we're just gonna re-image your laptop. And I said, No, you will not. [03:00] Shawn Hain: the there's a problem reset start again you lose everything [03:03] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, [03:03] Shawn Hain: no [03:04] Dave Pengelley: yeah. [03:04] Shawn Hain: I actually [03:04] Dave Pengelley: So I was out with [03:05] Shawn Hain: that [03:05] Dave Pengelley: my [03:05] Shawn Hain: isn't [03:05] Dave Pengelley: phone and [03:05] Shawn Hain: okay [03:05] Dave Pengelley: on Google and managed to find a way to load a Mac OS into a recovery terminal where I could bring up a bash shell and then I was able to go through and do some stuff and clear it out and then got my Mac to reboot. And I went back to them and went, thanks. I'm alright now. Close the ticket. I'm like, oh [03:24] Shawn Hain: I've I I've never worked in like the night support function. We've got a mate who has and And they do stuff like that because they just don't have time. They've got so many minutes per ticket and [03:35] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, but in in an internal help desk, when you've got someone like like uh um internal sort of management person coming in, they they probably they they're not used to dealing with techie people that are gonna argue with them probably, [03:48] Shawn Hain: the thing. [03:48] Dave Pengelley: uh in some ways. But just, you know, business context. They we're just gonna delete your files. You're gonna lose any data you got. So you should have had in the cloud. No, that's that's not how I work. Anyway. Um, you there there's two different types of IT guys. There's the ones that, you know, will [04:06] Dave Pengelley: troubleshoot and try to fix the problem, and then there's the ones that will take the the sort of shortest path. I mean, you've seen the IT crowd, you've got the two personas right there, right? [04:14] Shawn Hain: Yeah, [04:14] Dave Pengelley: With [04:14] Shawn Hain: that's [04:14] Dave Pengelley: Moss [04:15] Shawn Hain: it. [04:15] Dave Pengelley: and Roy. Uh Roy will very much just do the minimum. Uh and Moss is a little bit more, hmm, let's get to the bottom of this. [04:23] Shawn Hain: Yeah, let's spend six hours f solving a problem that you know, let's actually find the root cause rather than Just reset the computer and the problem goes away. [04:32] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, like I get if you're at the Apple Genius bar and stuff like that, you've got less time and you've you've you've got set limits and you're trying to move things through. Um yeah, I had a good experience with them with my my MacBook Air. It wouldn't charge the battery. So it would run when plugged in, but wouldn't charge the battery anymore. And I took it in there, and I'd been having this problem for a few weeks, and it just took me a few weeks to make a booking and get in there. And when I went in there, they looked it up and went, Yeah, your warranty ran out three weeks ago. [05:00] Dave Pengelley: But I'll talk to my manager and it's okay. We're gonna replace the battery for you. And so they they took it and [05:05] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [05:05] Dave Pengelley: did a full warranty service. So my four year old MacBook Air got a fresh lease of life with a brand new battery, [05:11] Shawn Hain: No, [05:11] Dave Pengelley: um, which [05:11] Shawn Hain: it's [05:12] Dave Pengelley: got [05:12] Shawn Hain: awesome. [05:12] Dave Pengelley: rewarranted because it was brand new. So [05:14] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [05:14] Dave Pengelley: that was that was pretty good. [05:15] Shawn Hain: I will say this about Apple. Say what you like about some of their business practices, their warranty and like customer support stuff. They want you to stay with them, so they do bend the rules a bit to keep people in in. [05:30] Dave Pengelley: That's really good in their warranty. We had an ex-member of them on the show, uh Angus, is Road. Road microphones, they're really good. [05:36] Shawn Hain: Okay. [05:37] Dave Pengelley: They'll just fix stuff. If you say there's a problem with something, they will fix it, replace it. Like their tech support is pretty good. I've actually got to said Angus, I've got to send that this back because this guy's battery has just died. It will not turn on at all. So but you know, [05:52] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [05:52] Dave Pengelley: here's my here's my product placement that we're we're not sponsored, but uh road if you'd like to. [05:57] Shawn Hain: Yeah. Feel free to sign up. [06:00] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. Um how are you, Sean? Like [06:04] Shawn Hain: I'm [06:04] Dave Pengelley: to f [06:04] Shawn Hain: good actually. Um [06:06] Dave Pengelley: yeah. [06:06] Shawn Hain: being head down with um some client deliverables, but mainly it's just getting quoted out at the moment. [06:12] Dave Pengelley: Hmm. [06:12] Shawn Hain: A lot of the agencies I white label for have all had work. So it's been, you know, there's one guy out of the States who's dropped three projects on me in the last two weeks, and it's like scrambled to assess, do the kind of like what does this actually look like, and then get the quote. Up pro the proposal and quote out properly. Okay, and just keeping those two projects in my head once is sometimes interesting. I [06:38] Dave Pengelley: Yes. [06:38] Shawn Hain: was writing something up last night and I was realized I'm like yeah, going away editing it. Hang on a minute, this is the wrong project. I I have brought in scope from the other project. Stop. Delete the last paragraph. [06:50] Dave Pengelley: Yep. Very very good. Well, well, well, speaking of projects and AI and how we do all these sorts of things, um, we're gonna kill off the show, and it's a slightly different show. If people might notice that it's just the Of us this week, Matt and Richard are not here. We brought Sean back. I was put a call out to the super friends. Uh, and uh Sean was able to come and jump in to join me and keep me company. And so given we're both um actively doing projects and things, we might make this a bit more of a techie talk as well as just the general news and coverage and what we're doing. But just talk a little bit about process and how we approach using some of these AI things and what AI things we're actually using day to day at the moment. Um I'm keen to know a little bit more about your stack and what you're doing, Sean, and and happy to share what I'm doing as well. But let's [07:35] Shawn Hain: Yeah, [07:36] Dave Pengelley: kick [07:36] Shawn Hain: I for [07:36] Dave Pengelley: off [07:36] Shawn Hain: sure. [07:36] Dave Pengelley: this show. [07:39] Dave Pengelley: It's just not the same. [07:58] Dave Pengelley: It's so good. And it's and it's Purely accidental every single time. I don't expect him to jump in, but he just wants us to wax lyrical as I'm pressing the thing, and it's like that's [08:08] Shawn Hain: You [08:08] Dave Pengelley: that's such [08:08] Shawn Hain: need [08:09] Dave Pengelley: a [08:09] Shawn Hain: like [08:09] Dave Pengelley: good [08:09] Shawn Hain: a little [08:09] Dave Pengelley: game. [08:09] Shawn Hain: warning thing to pop up, you know, five, four, three, so [08:12] Dave Pengelley: No. [08:12] Shawn Hain: we know like nah, [08:13] Dave Pengelley: Well, [08:13] Shawn Hain: just cut them off. I like it. [08:14] Dave Pengelley: that's that's one of the issues I have using restream because it's in the browser. There is this little latency and lag between when I press things, when they fire, when they come back and finish. So even at the start of the show, and I talked about this previous weeks. When I hit go live and it gives us a countdown, we're talking and it still loses like you know 10 seconds. I never quite know which word is gonna make the recording and which one doesn't on YouTube because [08:36] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [08:36] Dave Pengelley: just the latency between between that. And even at the end when I when it signs off, the reason we have that bumper at the end with this has that long, sort of just gentle, drifty music, is I've got buffer space in there to just cut it like at some point in time in that last 10 seconds. Otherwise before with the short stinger it'd be over and then it'd be, oh and that it was just, you know, inside inside baseball stuff. But when we're dealing with these sort of web technology And we have this lag and latency is certainly something that, you know, we can't we can't control fully. Whereas, you know, that's why if anyone's been on a podcast and used Riverside or something like that, it does a local recording, records all the audio video locally, so that way it gets the high fidelity and then uploads it and just finishes mishing it together [09:18] Shawn Hain: Oh, [09:18] Dave Pengelley: at the [09:18] Shawn Hain: okay. [09:19] Dave Pengelley: end. [09:19] Shawn Hain: That's cool, I like [09:20] Dave Pengelley: But [09:20] Shawn Hain: that. [09:21] Dave Pengelley: because we're live streaming, we don't have that luxury. Um I think I think [09:24] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [09:24] Dave Pengelley: Restream can do that if we're just doing a recording, but [09:27] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [09:27] Dave Pengelley: because we uh streaming. [09:29] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [09:30] Dave Pengelley: Uh, it is what it is. But uh yeah, if you're joining us, uh we've got we've got some people in the audience live, say hello. Um, drop something in the chat. We'd love to hear from you. And what and have you got any questions for Sean and I about all things AI? Um yeah, we uh I've been busy this week. Like last week I talked about having a hangover and because I'd worked so hard on the Monday with the reset, and then yesterday they gave us another reset. I woke up. The GPD saying, we're giving you another reset in three hours again. I was like, but now I've got Astra. And I'm like, ooh, ooh. [10:08] Dave Pengelley: Because [10:08] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [10:09] Dave Pengelley: I'd I'd used Astra a little bit on Monday just to tizzy up my website. And I put a thing out on LinkedIn going, you know what? I Sunday night, Sunday night in front of the F1, I had Grok and Hermes, and I was just trying to build my website and get the I just wanted this like this this grid um geometric mountain range in the background because I've got the whole synth wave thing going on on my website. Grok could not do it. Grok 4.6, 20 commits, and they just were all crap to the point where I'm like, okay, abandon that idea. Let's go with a constellation in the sky. Nope, still couldn't do it. Put in stupid circles and didn't even know what the Southern Cross was, was putting the little the mini star on the wrong side. And it was like everything was wrong. And I'm like, oh my goodness. It was like, so eventually I just went, just just get rid of the mountains, just have a fog. The finally got the Southern Cross, barely visible way in the background. I'm like, I don't care. It's just good enough. Just commit that. And so then on Monday, uh, Astra and I sort of think on YouTube [11:05] Shawn Hain: Prince. [11:05] Dave Pengelley: that we talked about how good Astra was at 3D, and everyone's using it for Blender and all these sorts of things. So I was like, well, I've got [11:12] Shawn Hain: Prince. [11:12] Dave Pengelley: 3D on my website. That's what I'm I'm trying to do. So I was like, do mountains. And it was like, [11:17] Shawn Hain: Prince. [11:17] Dave Pengelley: bang, one shot. I'm like, oh, oh my goodness. It works. It actually [11:25] Shawn Hain: Prince. [11:25] Dave Pengelley: works. Um so now. For those playing at home. Look, I've got this beautiful little mountain range hiding in the background. And oh look, there's my little constellations up there that are clearly visible above the tile there. So I was like, it did it, it did it. And the other thing is previously when I first went to this website, the original version was very white and just empty hollow wireframes. Um, and I had all these like these projection shapes that were just there all the time, and you could see the whole narrative through the background. They were like they were just floating shapes through the Whole thing the whole time. But [12:01] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [12:01] Dave Pengelley: my original dream when I sort of started going in this direction was to have like this little field of drones that would fly across the uh the surface, and then I would fly up to project the images I wanted. And again, previous models, I could not translate what I wanted into a way that it would understand and be able to create this. [12:21] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [12:21] Dave Pengelley: Astra, first shot. [12:23] Shawn Hain: Okay, cool. [12:24] Dave Pengelley: Just fully nailed it. Um, and you know, some of these pictures didn't make sense properly. The ones I had before. And so it sort of helped re-engineer. Like that compass wasn't there before. I had something else, I can't even remember what. Um, and it just knew how to build new little 3D shapes, understood the whole synth wave thing and the drones and the projections. And I'm like, man, that's so good. So now I've got to rework the messaging. So now that I've got this, now I can iterate the messaging more and so on. So I was still working on my website, but this is live now. And I was just impressed with Astra that it was able to knock this out where. Other models, I just couldn't understand what I was trying to achieve. [13:03] Shawn Hain: Yeah. I've um I haven't into that much myself because I haven't been trying to do design stuff as such. I only started really using Astra this week, um, like over the weekend and into this week, and I'd say the thing I've noticed the most, just because of what I'm working on, is it writes better. Way better than the previous models. I used to use I still do use the anthropic models for their writing. I feel it's more natural. But now I've got actually I was doing some work the other day in Astro and like that's actually really good. I now have to compare the two and make a decision on which one becomes my daily driver for drafting tasks. Um as opposed to like coding tasks, which are a bit more yeah, I don't care who writes the code as long as someone does. Um but yeah, it's interesting how much the model updates can make a difference. [13:59] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. Yeah, it's cra [14:00] Shawn Hain: And [14:00] Dave Pengelley: it's [14:00] Shawn Hain: then [14:00] Dave Pengelley: crazy. [14:01] Shawn Hain: moving [14:01] Dave Pengelley: So [14:01] Shawn Hain: so fast it's so hard to keep up. [14:03] Dave Pengelley: yeah, so Sunday night I'm I'm banging my head on the on the wall trying to get these mountains, and then Monday morning just bang happens. Uh and so I didn't really do much more with Astra on on Monday because I was worried about burning it all too quickly. Although I've got three full resets, thank you, OpenAI. Um but then yesterday morning when I woke up to the whole news we're gonna get another free reset, I was like, oh no, this was all last week all over again. I'm gonna I'm gonna kill. Myself multitasking, but [14:31] Shawn Hain: Yeah, [14:31] Dave Pengelley: I did it [14:31] Shawn Hain: but [14:32] Dave Pengelley: anyway, [14:32] Shawn Hain: burn [14:32] Dave Pengelley: and I [14:32] Shawn Hain: through [14:32] Dave Pengelley: just [14:32] Shawn Hain: full [14:32] Dave Pengelley: ran. [14:33] Shawn Hain: array sets. You'll [14:33] Dave Pengelley: Well, [14:34] Shawn Hain: be fine. [14:34] Dave Pengelley: well, I went from 91% down to like 24, I think, by the time I reset. So I used nearly a whole week's 5x quota, primarily with Astra. Um, Astra's not in Hermes yet, so I was still using Soul 900 um K context in Hermes a little bit, um, but just yeah, bashing out projects, and yeah, it's um then you know I was doing so well with some. Those projects that were just long running things because Astra is actually really good at the long running stuff [15:04] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [15:05] Dave Pengelley: compared to other models that I've used before. Uh that I've just burned through I'm down to about nine percent now in another 24 hours, which is fine because I've got a full reset, which I'm probably going to use. So I'm like, [15:15] Shawn Hain: Okay. [15:15] Dave Pengelley: you know what, it's working, working hard. Let's just keep knocking stuff out. But [15:21] Dave Pengelley: that's [15:25] Shawn Hain: As long as it's delivering stuff that has value, you're sweet. My can Concerned with all this stuff, and it's a tendency I've I do run into is oh I like engineering things. Let's go play around with this stuff, and it's like lose three or four days building something. It's like this actually doesn't have any use outside of me. Like it's just something I want to do or solve a problem because I like doing that kind of stuff. It's like stop. [15:47] Shawn Hain: Do the client work, go find another client. [15:52] Dave Pengelley: Yep, yep. Well, I think I think we're straight into this topic a little bit, but let's let's uh we should we should put up a stinger up. [15:57] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [15:59] Dave Pengelley: Oh yeah. [16:11] Dave Pengelley: Wins of [16:12] Shawn Hain: I [16:12] Dave Pengelley: the week, [16:12] Shawn Hain: sleep. [16:13] Dave Pengelley: the week. So yeah, big big win for me is is is the redev of my website um and getting that all working. Um pretty pretty psyched about that. But I've also you know refined my overall branding uh uh as I've gone through, and you know, you know, you know. I know you're getting a bit crazy when you go, you know what? I want a uh slash brand page that explains my brand. [16:39] Dave Pengelley: Um, but because I'm generating content, I want my content on LinkedIn to look different. I was like, you know what, I've got this synth wave look. Like, I want to generate content that looks like this because it's different. People don't have this look and feel. So when I want to give it agents, I've got a markdown file which describes it. But I was like, why not have just a brand page on my website that also gives any agent I want to point at it? Because I've started using a bit of a groc bot. [17:03] Shawn Hain: Okay. [17:04] Dave Pengelley: Have you used groc bot yet? [17:05] Shawn Hain: No, I haven't. Um I [17:09] Shawn Hain: how do I say this? I love I love all the new stuff that comes out, I just don't have the time to look at it. [17:15] Dave Pengelley: I yeah, I didn't didn't touch Grokbot at first, right? Because I'm like, oh, it's another thing. And Hermes, I'm really happy with. It's not that I've got a problem with Hermes. Um, but I felt it behooved me to have some point of view. You on this thing. And when Matt told me that it wasn't on the two hundred dollar plan anymore, it was on all the plans, I was like, uh, okay, I'll give it a go. But then I got it and I'm sitting there going, I don't know what to use you for. Like, I'm [17:42] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [17:43] Dave Pengelley: happy. Like, what work do I even give you? You have none of my context. And you're back in putting me in that vendor prison where I don't own my own data. Like we we touched on this at the end of last week's show. If I'm full in all on Grocbot, I'm tied to one model, one ecosystem. [18:00] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [18:00] Dave Pengelley: All of my context and information is stuck in the Grock Bots, I'm somewhat hostage. [18:06] Shawn Hain: Yeah, that's definitely a concern though. Um I think it's Matt's system that he was building last I spoke to him about this anyway, is intentionally the context is vendor agnostic. So something like that plugged into it would help solve that problem, but you are still held hostage to if they change something, your system changes overnight. [18:30] Dave Pengelley: With my LinkedIn because being in the cloud and having its own web browser and being off my computer, um, if I'm doing stuff that I'm not, I don't like just it's as I I trusted it not to post. I so I logged into its browser with my LinkedIn with the instructions [18:45] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [18:46] Dave Pengelley: don't post. But being able to go in and set up searches in Sales Navigator, which I've got a free trial for at the moment, or look for ICP, uh, my ideal customer profile, customers. I've got it looking um where I can run it to go look for posts I should comment. On. So I've [19:00] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [19:01] Dave Pengelley: looked through my comment history of the kind of snarky comments I write and gone, oh, these are posts that your your your style uh would maybe be good for uh adding some input to. [19:11] Shawn Hain: Okay. [19:11] Dave Pengelley: Um and so [19:12] Shawn Hain: That's [19:12] Dave Pengelley: I've [19:12] Shawn Hain: actually [19:12] Dave Pengelley: got it. [19:13] Shawn Hain: a really good use for those kind of tools. [19:15] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, so it runs off on its own little browser and thinks about stuff, you know. Looking for RAM, I got to go start searching and was looking at static ice and AliExpress and places like that, trying to find stuff for me. So you can sort of do those those sort of tasks. I mean, Chat GPT. [19:33] Shawn Hain: Yeah, I've actually been um playing around with um with the computer used stuff that ChatGPT has. I think Anthropic has something similar, but I just haven't used it. It's actually I've been it's been quite useful for what I'm using it for, [19:47] Dave Pengelley: Okay. [19:47] Shawn Hain: rather than building like I'm gonna connect to zero or some other things, I will just have it drive the browser. Um I'm actually in like in terms of like what I offer as a service, it's like well That's gonna eat the lower end of the market. The you know, one [20:04] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [20:04] Shawn Hain: app connections and stuff like that. Why compete? Learn how to do this and sell that to people. [20:10] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, I mean cum computer use is wild because like we go back to the whole stories of people getting the whole inboxes deleted when they hook them up to open claws and RM minus RFing like key file system stuff and then you go, oh, I'll just log you in to like give you access to the whole computer. I mean that goes back to the open claw when it first started and people buying ISO. Mac minis for it. [20:31] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [20:32] Dave Pengelley: Um it's [20:32] Shawn Hain: I [20:34] Dave Pengelley: go. I was gonna say it's one of the things I like about Grokbot and and these other ones, and you can have a VPS, you can do them for anything, but Grok [20:41] Shawn Hain: don't know. [20:41] Dave Pengelley: was just so simple to set up. Like someone wanted me to um find some some PDFs and and do some stuff with them and and get some text out of them. And I was like, well, I don't need that in any of my core systems. I don't need Hermes to know about these things that I'm doing, like random side quests. So I said to GrocBot, hey, here's these PDFs. Can can you pull out summaries? And then one of them was like pictures of content. And I was like, and I need to OCR this. Can you OCR it? Or rather than use your usage, should we use a cheap Lunar model or something? And he goes, Well, actually, I will just install Tesseract on my PC and run it through that. And then you've got zero token cost and I will give you all the OCR back. And I'm like, Okay, that's great. I don't need to run a whole bunch of extra libraries and install Tesseract and use my CPU. It just did it in its Little cloud computer for me for free, essentially. And I was [21:33] Shawn Hain: I [21:33] Dave Pengelley: like, [21:33] Shawn Hain: love [21:34] Dave Pengelley: I'll [21:34] Shawn Hain: that. [21:34] Dave Pengelley: I'll take that. That's a win. [21:37] Shawn Hain: I love that as a solution. Here, just use this thing. [21:40] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, I'll I'll [21:41] Shawn Hain: That's [21:41] Dave Pengelley: I'll I'll [21:41] Shawn Hain: great. [21:41] Dave Pengelley: NPM sort of install these these uh these apps and and run these things and just do it for you. I was like, it's a good result. I like that. So yeah, I'm I'm trying to get Grokbot to do some of that sort of stuff. And I think the LinkedIn hands-on stuff, and again, Hermes, I could give it access. To my browsers and do all that kind of stuff, but then it's all sitting on my main machine eating my limited RAM, which is where we open the chat. So I'm like, I just I can only run so many things at one time off just [22:10] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [22:11] Dave Pengelley: one laptop. [22:12] Shawn Hain: Yeah, that's it. I've I've got a spare computer that I use for when I travel, so I don't really use it much at home. Um, which is what I'm thinking of setting up a user profile just to run so it's here's the handful of restricted things you have access to, give computer use to that so it can't go and delete my email. Because it doesn't need access to them for what I'm doing. But I think a cloud version is probably the way to go. Like long-term. [22:36] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [22:37] Shawn Hain: Like if you have something long term, that way you don't have to, you're not worried about power, you're not worried about internet connection. [22:42] Dave Pengelley: Windows [22:42] Shawn Hain: Set up [22:43] Dave Pengelley: updates. [22:43] Shawn Hain: on the cloud, pay the $10 a month, whatever it is, for a VPS. If you're really worried about stuff, hit play, walk [22:50] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [22:50] Shawn Hain: away. [22:51] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, I am [22:52] Shawn Hain: Which [22:52] Dave Pengelley: I [22:52] Shawn Hain: is [22:52] Dave Pengelley: have [22:52] Shawn Hain: what [22:53] Dave Pengelley: a [22:53] Shawn Hain: I love about [22:53] Dave Pengelley: lot. [22:53] Shawn Hain: Hermes. I finished setting mine up last month, [22:57] Dave Pengelley: Oh [22:57] Shawn Hain: I think. [22:58] Dave Pengelley: yeah. [22:59] Shawn Hain: It's been really good. By just doing research and stuff that I'm you know, go do this, I'll come, you know, come back when you've finished doing it type thing, rather than burning my um you know, anthropic usage or something, which I'm trying to do for client work or [23:14] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [23:14] Shawn Hain: for [23:15] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, [23:15] Shawn Hain: document [23:15] Dave Pengelley: it's um [23:16] Shawn Hain: review and stuff. So [23:18] Dave Pengelley: I [23:21] Dave Pengelley: uh forgotten what I was gonna say there. Um so are you running homies locally or homies in a cloud? [23:28] Shawn Hain: on a VPS. [23:30] Dave Pengelley: On a VPS, yeah. [23:31] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [23:31] Dave Pengelley: Um yeah, I'm I'm not running any Hermes in the cloud at the moment, but I did install Hermes on my other laptop. I've got an old laptop sitting on the shelf up there that I use. Like that's no secret that I dabble with a bit of FX day trading. Um and try and write automated trading robots and things and nothing makes money consistently. It either loses or breaks even. So that's why I'm still, you know, making podcasts. Although if I had all the money in the world, I would probably still make podcasts because I enjoy it. Um [24:00] Shawn Hain: That's that's a thing. [24:02] Dave Pengelley: Uh I was saying last week to someone, I'd be full Joe Rogan. I'd be doing like three-hour podcasts every day. Like that would be awesome. Um But I have been, you know, today been uh started when I was on my Mac and I'd code like used to do stuff on my Mac, but Mac wasn't really built for the trading software. It was a Windows-only thing. So then I'd code stuff there and then push it out to my PC, which is now my daily driver, and then different room and go there and run things. But now that my PC is my daily driver, I can't run things on that all the time. And I was trying to build like a sort of FX trading lab where it would overnight run a cron, pull some ideas down off the off the web, iterate some ideas, try some things out, but it all fell apart. And because I didn't really want to eat in my CPU or my tokens all the time, I didn't get seriously into automating some of that pipeline. But I'm at the point now, I was like with Hermes, I was like, well, hang on. Hermes runs on Windows now. I don't need WSL. This old laptop doesn't really, I don't want WSL. sell on it, but it can run Hermes Windows. So I've stuck Hermes Windows on it. And um I've set it up as a remote gateway on my Tal Scale so I can actually just run it from this machine. So I've got like Hermes cross gateway integration which is really cool [25:12] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [25:13] Dave Pengelley: now in the Hermes desktop app. But I've I've got that now where I can set up the cron and go, you know what, you have access to the terminal, you have access to the testing environment. Just 247, you should just be testing ideas. Like just just run. And you're running paper trading on a on a fake account. So you can test everything in line You can do all the things. I've actually set it up now, so I've actually got a um a vision trader. So rather than just looking at candles and maths and formulas, it will actually draw the charts out and then like get a vision model to assess the um [25:43] Shawn Hain: Okay. [25:43] Dave Pengelley: the charts as well. [25:44] Shawn Hain: Cool. [25:44] Dave Pengelley: Because that gives it a different perspective than just reading raw numbers and algorithmic [25:49] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [25:49] Dave Pengelley: stuff, the visuals of charts. So I'm testing [25:51] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [25:52] Dave Pengelley: out a visual trader at the moment. [25:53] Shawn Hain: Yeah, I remember [25:54] Dave Pengelley: Um [25:54] Shawn Hain: actually when I was doing crypto stuff in my previous company, um, we had a conversation. about that and the technology wasn't there yet. This is pre-AI days, so it's like, can we do that? It's like, yes, but that's a huge task just to gather the data. [26:10] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, like [26:11] Shawn Hain: Um [26:12] Dave Pengelley: and [26:12] Shawn Hain: so yeah [26:13] Dave Pengelley: and [26:13] Shawn Hain: it's actually interesting but [26:14] Dave Pengelley: the [26:14] Shawn Hain: that's [26:14] Dave Pengelley: the the [26:14] Shawn Hain: cool. [26:15] Dave Pengelley: the trading tool I use, MetaTrader, that they've just brought in their own MCP. So the MCP goes and pulls all the trading and candle data. [26:21] Shawn Hain: Oh [26:22] Dave Pengelley: Um [26:22] Shawn Hain: that's fantastic. [26:23] Dave Pengelley: and then my I just draw my own little charts using the data that are easy, like in JavaScript charts [26:27] Shawn Hain: Yeah [26:27] Dave Pengelley: that are easy for my bots to to sort of take. A snapshot of and read, [26:31] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [26:31] Dave Pengelley: and then they can decide whether they're gonna place trades or not. And they do that back through the MCP. And [26:35] Shawn Hain: That's [26:36] Dave Pengelley: so it's [26:36] Shawn Hain: cool. [26:36] Dave Pengelley: all running on my desktop. [26:38] Shawn Hain: One [26:38] Dave Pengelley: Um [26:38] Shawn Hain: of the things that that company, or the biggest things that it was actually writing the interface into their API. Like that's probably the thing that I spent 40% of my time on, and just handling them changing stuff. [26:49] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [26:50] Shawn Hain: So if they've got a maintained MCP, that just makes your life so much easier. [26:55] Dave Pengelley: Yep. Yep. [26:56] Shawn Hain: I [26:56] Dave Pengelley: I think [26:56] Shawn Hain: love [26:56] Dave Pengelley: I mean [26:57] Shawn Hain: it. [26:57] Dave Pengelley: I I've I've built chartreporter.com, which I think there's still a really solid place for that because that deploys into your chart trading environment and sends like a read-only view up into my reporting analytics system, which is [27:10] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [27:10] Dave Pengelley: a bit different from an MCP. And then [27:11] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [27:12] Dave Pengelley: my tool has an MCP. So you want to interrogate your trading history, you can ask my tool, um, [27:16] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [27:16] Dave Pengelley: which is gonna do a bit more analysis and other bits and pieces and just the raw data. And it's, [27:20] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [27:20] Dave Pengelley: you know, fully read only. So yeah, lots of different ways to skin these cats. But um yeah, my win of the week was sort of getting getting a few distributed computing things happening. Um [27:30] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [27:31] Dave Pengelley: and Astra, really. I think uh we'll talk [27:34] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [27:34] Dave Pengelley: about Astra a bit in the news, I think. Um, [27:36] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [27:37] Dave Pengelley: but um [27:39] Shawn Hain: For [27:39] Dave Pengelley: yeah. [27:39] Shawn Hain: mine, I guess um there was two. I got new clients, I'm always happy about that. But the other one was interesting. I actually retired about 70% of my skills and um framework that I've been building over the last few months because it had turned into a multi-headed hydra that was [27:58] Shawn Hain: more ceremony. Than um actual throughput. Um so I took a note about this earlier because I knew I'd forget it. Um basically I went through it with a with a knife and went if you don't pass one sentence, you get removed. [28:20] Shawn Hain: Um which was consistent. AI executed processes that let one developer ship production grade code with human control, uh spec review, and merge. [28:30] Dave Pengelley: Mm-hmm. [28:30] Shawn Hain: That's it. If you don't support that, you get put in the bin. And over several months of just additive, okay, this isn't working properly. Add this, add this, add this. It's about 70%. So that's some skills just got outright thrown in the bin. And a lot of um stuff went from you know 100,000 words down to like 40,000 words. Um and I've now actually set an upper limit. So on my framework repo, which where I keep all my skills and so that so I can diff them over time. [29:05] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [29:05] Shawn Hain: Um, I've actually set a CI check that checks the number of words that are in all of the markdown files. If it goes above a certain point, it triggers another review. To stop that, okay, it's two o'clock in the morning. Yeah, this isn't working, just out of sentence, out of sentence, out of sentence, which is exactly what happened. Um from turning it into the same thing. So um I think Matt was talking, put a thing up in either one of these or Just in the community chat we're all in, [29:32] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [29:32] Shawn Hain: um, about periodically delete your um delete everything and start again. [29:38] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [29:39] Shawn Hain: Not quite in the same frame to that extreme, but it's definitely do that honest review of does this earn its place, especially as the models evolve. [29:48] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [29:48] Shawn Hain: Because [29:49] Dave Pengelley: I [29:49] Shawn Hain: they [29:49] Dave Pengelley: but [29:49] Shawn Hain: are getting better. [29:50] Dave Pengelley: I I did that with that FX FX trading lab concept, right? Like I I cleaned up the repo, pushed it up, went to the other laptop, cloned the the repo down onto the new laptop. And said, hey, a lot of this was built before there was MCP. A lot of this was built in a pr in a different era of things. So rather than just sort of sucking in all these skills and assuming this is the best way to go forward, read what's in the repo and then decide how we actually want to move forward as far as running a 24-7 trading lab [30:20] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [30:20] Dave Pengelley: because things change. [30:22] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [30:22] Dave Pengelley: Um [30:22] Shawn Hain: I think that mission statement is probably what irked me the most cutting. It's and it was sit there and think what I'm saying. Am I actually trying to achieve with this tall project whatever? And if it doesn't support that, don't have it. [30:37] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, it's I I've I've never gone deep deep on like having lots of skills or really refining my skills. I did with my personas a little bit when I had my sort of different personas, and I think they still come in and play their part. I haven't reviewed them strongly because they're just kind of working. But as far as how to do things type skills, um, yeah, I'm probably a bit skill-lazy. From that point of view and trust the model as the model's got better, you can afford that, right? But it'd say, like Astra, let it run naked to a certain extent. [31:11] Shawn Hain: Yeah, [31:11] Dave Pengelley: Um, [31:11] Shawn Hain: I haven't tried that yet. [31:13] Dave Pengelley: yeah, I'm I'm I'm in this weird place at the moment because Astra is not fully supported in Hermes. And so for a lot of the build stuff, I've been back in just the GPT app using codecs for building stuff, and so it doesn't necessarily have all of my various like for building the website, it doesn't have all my business context that Hermes has in my full business folder site. So I've got [31:36] Dave Pengelley: Astra in in Codex doing a lot of the building and and you know just working with what it's got. But in the same token, I've got Hermes. But I've also because I've been using the LinkedIn and doing some stuff and ideating around my ideal customer profile in Grokbot, I've got Grockbot, which doesn't have all the context either. So I'll sort of ideate a little bit with Grokbot on the go on my phone. And then I'm taking some of that and then dropping that into Hermes and getting Hermes to give it its full review with my different personas and And get all their little hats and think about my big picture. And then I'm also getting Astro just to give my direction a fresh look and then bringing in the Hermes context on top of that to try and mingle and merge that sort of, you know, that ministry multiple assistance thing. [32:16] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [32:16] Dave Pengelley: Um to try and get the best result. So yeah, it's [32:20] Shawn Hain: Makes me wonder, is it worth building some kind of tool that allows Grok and Astra or Kodaks [32:28] Dave Pengelley: a good one. [32:29] Shawn Hain: to talk to Your Hermes agent so it can give them context. [32:32] Dave Pengelley: Well, that would be what Matt's building with his knowledge core, right? Like having [32:36] Shawn Hain: Yes. [32:37] Dave Pengelley: that centralized knowledge core that they all touch into and access. Yeah, maybe, but I also think, you know, just making them fight against each other, there's value in that [32:44] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [32:44] Dave Pengelley: as well. Uh [32:45] Shawn Hain: I [32:46] Dave Pengelley: I mean [32:46] Shawn Hain: do [32:46] Dave Pengelley: her. [32:46] Shawn Hain: the same thing with uh my reviews. It's adversarial. It's alright. Again, you know, Opus, go do this review. All right. Now, soul, go do this review [32:55] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [32:55] Shawn Hain: and argue with each other. Please disagree. [33:00] Shawn Hain: Um, which I think is really valuable. I do that a lot with like um legal, like contract reviews and stuff like that, before I put them in front of a lawyer just so I'm not spending as much on lawyers because oh my gosh, they're expensive. Um [33:13] Shawn Hain: and it's interesting how differently they approach things and the issues they find. You review this and said it was clean, and this one's come back saying, Well, hey, this doesn't mean what they said it means. [33:26] Shawn Hain: That's it's not quite meeting the intent. [33:30] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I um I Hermes has a mix of agents and you can define, you know, three, four, five models and an aggregator model. And yeah, giving it, you know, give Kimi and Minimax and Grok and Sol or Terra or Luna and getting them all run through and just seeing what they do and don't find. Yeah, it's that's interesting the different perspectives they get. Um I've got one that that uh a mix of agents I call design where I throw it like GLM 5.3 and Kimmy K3. And Gemini, whatever the newest flashes, 3.7, 3.8, just [34:04] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [34:04] Dave Pengelley: because they're all a little bit more design friendly versus, you know, ChatGPT has never been great at design. Um uh until Astra Well, Astra Astra's definitely better. Um, but yeah, so like uh to get that review of different different agents that have a different point of view on how to implement graphic design type elements. Um yeah. Uh [34:30] Shawn Hain: I do like that um meeting of agents kind of approach that Hermes has got I think it's really useful. It fits with how I run development. I just do it manually 'cause I don't do my development in Hermes, but [34:42] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [34:42] Shawn Hain: same same kind of deal. I actually really like that approach. [34:45] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, it's it's it's interesting. Like back in the old days, back as far as anti-gravity, when I was using that, and I set up my little personas with hats, Lex and Felicity and Cat and Kryptonite and all these people. They then when I moved to Hermes, I tried. To make them all their own individual agent profiles to talk to each other and got way too messy. That was you know the talk you saw me give at the pub. Um, and I I I cleaned it right back down to you know, this is my valid agenda business profile, and you have access to wear these hats and go back to being these people. The Hermes have become really clever at just innately knowing what's in your org and when to use it. So, like I said, I'm just today working on website copy review now that I'm really refining down my ICP after sort of a few um few. New sort of client discussions and really working out where my sweet spot is. Um, and you know, I got Grockbot to help me with some ICP stuff and looking that up on LinkedIn and having a chat with Hermes about that, and then think about Astra. And then I went back to Hermes and go, okay, cool. Here's where I think my ICP is. We need to think about the copy. And I just said that. Didn't tell it to invoke anyone. And as it goes through, it's got some generic stuff. And then it goes, Lex thinks from a business point of view, you need to think about this, this, and this. Kryptonite said there's risks with this, this, and this. And I'm like, It's just it just knows it's the harness is intelligent enough to go, okay, Dave's talking about business suggestions. I need to get all my little persona hats out and think [36:08] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [36:08] Dave Pengelley: about this from the different lenses that Dave likes to think about things. [36:11] Shawn Hain: That's awesome. [36:12] Dave Pengelley: Um yeah. [36:14] Shawn Hain: That's [36:14] Dave Pengelley: So [36:15] Shawn Hain: fantastic. [36:15] Dave Pengelley: it's [36:15] Shawn Hain: That's something I might need to play around with. Because [36:17] Dave Pengelley: yeah, [36:17] Shawn Hain: I've used [36:18] Dave Pengelley: it's [36:18] Shawn Hain: I [36:18] Dave Pengelley: and [36:18] Shawn Hain: I [36:18] Dave Pengelley: I [36:18] Shawn Hain: use [36:18] Dave Pengelley: wouldn't [36:19] Shawn Hain: Hermes, [36:19] Dave Pengelley: even know how to set it [36:19] Shawn Hain: but [36:19] Dave Pengelley: up [36:19] Shawn Hain: it's [36:20] Dave Pengelley: now [36:20] Shawn Hain: not [36:20] Dave Pengelley: because [36:20] Shawn Hain: heavily. [36:20] Dave Pengelley: it's it's just organically grown over, you know, the months I've been using it. If I was trying to set this up from scratch now, I probably I don't know, it's one of those things that's tricky and it's so personal. Personalized. That's why I'm always wary of you know selling an AI OS into a business because it's such a personalized thing and it's [36:36] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [36:37] Dave Pengelley: not some of the scales across the whole business. It's really solopreneur driven, I [36:43] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [36:43] Dave Pengelley: see. [36:43] Shawn Hain: The the way I look at AIOS, like especially as like um Lance Triple A is selling it, is [36:52] Shawn Hain: it's all about giving the owner access to their data and putting some roles over it. Yeah, you can the the skills in my mind. Aren't the critical thing the models can write them themselves now, really? Um, it's that is the data clean and good? Do the models have access to it? And as um, just looking at the front, like Enthropic and OpenAI, as their connectors get better, the answer is yes. Like they can connect to your email now, they can connect to your linear, they can connect to your whatever, right? Or [37:26] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [37:26] Shawn Hain: they have those connectors built already, so you don't have to build one off the Which is fantastic. Um, and certainly makes it cheaper for the client. Um it's about integrating those into an environment. And now that um I've noticed it with anthropic, and I think OpenAI is the same way. If you connect it on one computer, it connects to your account, not just that computer anymore. [37:49] Dave Pengelley: Mm-hmm. [37:49] Shawn Hain: So it even goes into like my Claude code, can access which I run in the CLI and WSL, accesses the connector I set up in Claude Desktop on Windows. [38:00] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, [38:00] Shawn Hain: Without [38:00] Dave Pengelley: the [38:00] Shawn Hain: me [38:00] Dave Pengelley: the [38:00] Shawn Hain: having to do anything [38:01] Dave Pengelley: common [38:01] Shawn Hain: else. [38:01] Dave Pengelley: config. [38:03] Shawn Hain: This makes changing or setting up that tooling so much simpler. [38:08] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [38:08] Shawn Hain: Log into your account, you're done. [38:10] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, I've I've I've been working on a few few new applications and things um in the in the background with Astra doing a big sprint yesterday. Um that's one of the ones where I let it keep running well past the reset because there's this this SAS app I've been trying to build for weeks. And trying to it's one of those things that it's funny, like when I started Started doing char report, I had a really clear vision. I wanted X, Y, and Z and I built it in chunks. I was like, okay, let's build this Young and now let's build this Young because I didn't expect the agent to be able to do a long running thing and I had to replant it all out in front. I just built it in, you know, workable little units where I could see it ha go in and then test it. I was very hands-on with it. As we progressed, I'm trying to go, oh, I should be able to have the whole spec done and and do all the plan and have all this and just pass it through the thing and it should build it all. And I want to tell it to build in adversarial testing and do this and that and the other. And I end up in the You know, these performance theater loops [39:02] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [39:02] Dave Pengelley: where and I was talking to Matt about this last week, and he talked about have you noticed the agents talking about slices? And I was like, yes. And I hadn't connected the dots that these agents they try and build these end-to-end, what they call slices, [39:14] Shawn Hain: Yes. [39:15] Dave Pengelley: the functionality that [39:16] Shawn Hain: And [39:16] Dave Pengelley: are completely useless. And that's not how you develop things. I think we talked about this on the call on Friday when we were having a chat, uh, Sean. Um, and so re-engineering these things to think about build functional blocks [39:26] Shawn Hain: I [39:27] Dave Pengelley: that I can [39:27] Shawn Hain: think [39:27] Dave Pengelley: then [39:27] Shawn Hain: that's [39:27] Dave Pengelley: go in [39:27] Shawn Hain: a good idea. [39:27] Dave Pengelley: and use and then build the next block and then wire. All the blocks together. [39:30] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [39:31] Dave Pengelley: Um, and so yeah, one of these things where there's I've been trying to build in Hermes a thing called the Dark Factory, where I can use Hermes to do these long running just go and build it. But one of those things, like I'm still building the Dark Factory and still having troubles with it trying to build stuff, it's getting closer. And every time it stops, I'm like, why did it stop? He goes, Oh, because of such and such. I'm like, fix the root cause so that way we can keep going and that won't [39:57] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [39:58] Dave Pengelley: stop next time. And so I've had a test. Project where I've been been trying to get the Dark Factory working. But with my other SaaS that I'm trying to build, Astra just ran for like 10 hours nonstop, iterating through building stuff, building stuff, and then goes, Okay, cool. Um, and I checked in at one point because you said you got to be careful. And I agree. You go, Are you actually building stuff or are you just going around in circles? And he goes, No, no, I'm really building stuff, but this is where we're up to. Uh, and I kept going and then said, Okay, cool. Now I need to push it and your GitHub logins expired. Can you read? Auth GitHub. I'm like, cool, done. Goes, oh, now I need to set up the database. Can you give me, can you give me the um the superbase login? I was like, well, you're in Chat GPT. I've connected your official plugin for Superbase. And it goes, Oh, that's good, but it's not good enough. I actually need the CLI to do some of the things. I'm like, okay, well, install the CLI. And it did, and then said, Okay, hit enter, prompted me up to to log into the web thing. I was like, Cool, okay. And for Verse L as well. It's like, I said, okay, I've connected your plugin. For Vercell's like, that's good, but I can't set environment variables. I need the Verse L CLI. I'm like, okay, go and do that. [41:06] Shawn Hain: I know that pain, trust me. [41:08] Dave Pengelley: But but then it kept going and it's working and it's it's configuring Vercel and Superbase and pushing all the stuff into Git and then doing self-testing on my whole stack. Like everything else would fall over and die or complain. Astra has just been able to long running just keep moving it forward to the point where I'm getting close to now. having to log in and test it myself. [41:31] Shawn Hain: All right, [41:32] Dave Pengelley: Um [41:32] Shawn Hain: cool. That's [41:33] Dave Pengelley: so [41:33] Shawn Hain: awesome. [41:34] Dave Pengelley: yeah, which is why I'm like, you know what, I'll burn a whole week's quota because I've got the resets anyway to get this because it's one of these projects where I think I've got a handful of people I want to pitch it to as sort of trial customers that I'll give give freebies to um in a hormosy style. And I can't until I actually have the product. So I'm like, I [41:50] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [41:51] Dave Pengelley: just oh I need the product because I keep finding people where I would like to have them as guinea pigs. But I can't guinea pig them until I've got something to show them. And make sure that it actually works. So that's [42:02] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [42:03] Dave Pengelley: been burning me that this thing's taken so long. Um, but you know, [42:07] Shawn Hain: Yeah, [42:08] Dave Pengelley: let's [42:08] Shawn Hain: that's [42:08] Dave Pengelley: waiting for the [42:09] Shawn Hain: I [42:09] Dave Pengelley: models [42:09] Shawn Hain: haven't [42:09] Dave Pengelley: to catch up. [42:10] Shawn Hain: I haven't really looked at trying like those long running unattended tasks yet. The control freaking me doesn't really like it. [42:18] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [42:18] Shawn Hain: Um but I am it is something I'm looking at. Um it's why like Grockbody's on my list of things to look at because I think that could be useful for that. And it's where I was going with Hermes was the intention. For it to run background tasks, run spikes and other things like that, [42:34] Dave Pengelley: Mm-hmm. [42:34] Shawn Hain: so I don't have to sit here and do it myself. [42:37] Dave Pengelley: Look, I think I think it's possible. And like I said, if I get this my Dark Factory Homies plugin um actually working, um I'll share it with you and you can probably improve it. Um it's one of those things I want to open source uh and and [42:48] Shawn Hain: Okay. [42:48] Dave Pengelley: make better. But uh yeah, I think I think there's a place for that. I think there is a place for just doing it modular, hands-on, and just like I said, car reporter did. Seem that hard to build because I built it in chunks and tested in chunks, and I had was very hands-on. And we've talked about this before. Like when you abdicate so much to the agent, you lose track of what decisions it's making. And when it asks for feedback, you don't even know what feedback to give it because you don't know what it's been doing. And so this long-running thing that's been running for 18 hours. I don't fully know what it's actually built. I've watched the prompts pop up occasionally and seen I was working on testing this bit and this this. Piece of functionality and making sure that the editor for this works and that works. I'm like, okay, feels like it's moving forward, [43:36] Shawn Hain: But [43:36] Dave Pengelley: but [43:36] Shawn Hain: is [43:36] Dave Pengelley: until [43:37] Shawn Hain: it? [43:37] Dave Pengelley: I can log in and test it, I [43:39] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [43:39] Dave Pengelley: actually have no idea if I've just burned a week's worth of tokens on circular theater, uh, which [43:44] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [43:44] Dave Pengelley: I've done before. [43:45] Shawn Hain: Yeah, hundred percent. Uh the way I tend to approach that is the same way I deliver client work. It's stand up the bones and a user interface. That's [43:54] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [43:54] Shawn Hain: kind of like the first part, 'cause that way you're getting feedback from the client on the UI, 'cause that's always They're [44:00] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [44:00] Shawn Hain: a bear, I guess I could say. If someone's going to have an issue outside of it doesn't work, it's I don't like the look of it. Um might be a way for you to approach that is have it stand up, right? This is the chunk you deliver, then you give feedback to it. Then this [44:15] Dave Pengelley: So [44:15] Shawn Hain: is the next chunk that you deliver and I give feedback. You won't get your 18 hours doing that, but it might do five or six, and then you get to have input, which might give you that kind of feeling of control back a little, maybe. [44:27] Dave Pengelley: I think I think I wanna I want to run a new stinger and and Finish off the show. We're not really gonna new do do news. The big news this week is GPT six astro, and I think we've talked about that a [44:35] Shawn Hain: Yes. [44:35] Dave Pengelley: lot. Um [44:36] Shawn Hain: Try it, it's fantastic. [44:38] Dave Pengelley: it's it's pretty good. Uh let's do this. [44:54] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. Like the audio always cuts off, like like these things. Um I'm gonna give you a six second. With half a piece of audio. I'm like, ah, [45:02] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [45:02] Dave Pengelley: come on. Um, I'm keen because could you you deliver projects for people and um like you're using you said you experiment with a bit of homies in the cloud, but you talk about you you've got clawed code and using clawed primarily. Like, what is your setup for delivering projects that aren't your own, right? Because a lot of a lot of my work, I do, I've been doing a bit of client delivery, but a lot of mine stuff has been my own internal project, SaaS things, and so on. So I'm keen. The know from you, how do you separate them out? You're all running basically off one one server computer. How do you stop Clawed cross-pollinating between your your different projects and things like that? Like what are some of your processes [45:42] Shawn Hain: Um [45:43] Dave Pengelley: on that? [45:43] Shawn Hain: so I do almost all my development in WSL and that should I put them in a sandbox. [45:49] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [45:50] Shawn Hain: So what I'm actually doing outside of when I'm planning something, so sometimes I need to look cross repository to get information from other things when I'm doing. The planning, so I've got a library of components I built before that I reuse [46:03] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [46:04] Shawn Hain: and stuff like that. But once I'm actually developing something, I put them in a sandbox and go, this is all you can see. I don't care what you want to look at outside of that, you can't. Um, which allows me to basically run it with very minimal guardrails. Um so it basically the only thing it can't do is basically RMRF. And that's about it. Um because uh worst case even If it goes through and manually removes each file individually because it goes nuts, all it can do is nuke the repo. [46:35] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [46:36] Shawn Hain: Oh, I can't do git delete. [46:38] Dave Pengelley: Yep. [46:38] Shawn Hain: Same reason. Like so it's I've got a backup. Worst case, it blows it up. I pull it down and just rerun the install script. And I've got my dev tools and off I go. Um in terms of that, that keeps the isolation, and I run um Claude Code is probably my daily driver for coding at the moment, mainly it's just because that's the sum I'm paying for. Looking at swapping them probably when my sub runs up in a week or two. [47:04] Dave Pengelley: Mm-hmm. [47:04] Shawn Hain: Um, and experimenting more with using Codex again as my daily drive, which is what I was using probably three or four months ago. So they're the two I use, but I always keep the other there to do an adversarial review of everything the other one writes. Because they do have a tendency to focus on different things or leave different kind of gaps if I haven't been super specific about how they should solve. [47:33] Shawn Hain: In terms of, and something I've been looking at, I've been looking at some projects with like PII in it and stuff like that. Um that's been an interesting one. How do I keep that compliant? [47:45] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [47:46] Shawn Hain: Um so I've been looking at that and a lot of that's just um manually running through and de-identifying. So very much a focus on um, which is standard practice, is take the data, look at it, make fake data that looks like it. Um so nothing magical there, but it's just making sure I do it and don't accidentally just copy the file over, which is so easy now. Uh that the I can get this is the data, go forth and conquer. Um so nothing fancy, that's I've got that framework I've built, which is basically a set of standards. Um [48:18] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [48:18] Shawn Hain: is the core thing. This is what good code looks like, this is what a good commit looks like, this is what a good comment looks like, and when to use it. Um outside of that, it's just process. Um This is all right, you've got your feature specs, like your feature list, spec it, turn that into a handful of tasks that the agent goes through and runs, update the list, verify that it's done properly, run the review cycle, move on. [48:47] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's good. It's it's it's it's interesting. And the WSO sandboxing, I think, is really important. I'm looking at for um for some clients that I'm I'm working with, thinking about maybe um as we get f into the build phase. Is spinning up a Hermes cloud agent on news portal because it's actually pretty cheap to run like have your 24-7 there without having to manage the VPS and all the infra. It just runs Hermes in their cloud environment. Um and isolating sort of project even at a not even a client level, but a client project level has its own [49:19] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [49:20] Dave Pengelley: Hermes agent, which becomes the build team for that entire thing in their cloud environment. And that way it's it's basically it's in its own Linux environment where it can build things fully isolated. Fully sandboxed. [49:31] Shawn Hain: I [49:31] Dave Pengelley: The the [49:31] Shawn Hain: can't [49:31] Dave Pengelley: next thing [49:31] Shawn Hain: play [49:32] Dave Pengelley: that [49:32] Shawn Hain: it [49:32] Dave Pengelley: I'm [49:32] Shawn Hain: all. [49:32] Dave Pengelley: yeah and the other thing that I'm I'm moving towards is client per client subs. So, you know, this client working with them, then we get, you know, from working fractionally for the these sort of things on sort of retainer basis. And so rather than being sort of specific project where I'm delivering a project out of my own, you know, usage cost, going, okay, well, we've got an ongoing relationship where we're building things here. So, you know, I want you know an open AI 5X like pro sub, which is yours. And which means, you know, part of my job every week is to be maxing that out and using that as part of the retainer to build stuff just for you. Um, because then they're getting the full ability of like I can burn Astro like, you know, I'm retainer one day a week. Okay, cool. Astra, I can burn through that in one day with you, building stuff out for your for your projects. And then, you know, I'm not burning out my ability to run my own business off my own plans and so on like that. [50:30] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [50:30] Dave Pengelley: So [50:31] Shawn Hain: I've [50:31] Dave Pengelley: um [50:31] Shawn Hain: actually talked to you about that offline because I've got a client who's asking to put me on a retainer and [50:36] Dave Pengelley: yeah. [50:36] Shawn Hain: I've never done that before, so [50:38] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, so I [50:39] Shawn Hain: might [50:39] Dave Pengelley: because [50:39] Shawn Hain: pick [50:39] Dave Pengelley: I was [50:39] Shawn Hain: your [50:39] Dave Pengelley: talking [50:39] Shawn Hain: brain [50:40] Dave Pengelley: to [50:40] Shawn Hain: on the right [50:40] Dave Pengelley: talk [50:40] Shawn Hain: approach. [50:40] Dave Pengelley: I was talking to Matt, and I don't think Matt like because Matt's always lamenting that he's out of all his uh his AI licenses. Like he's [50:47] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [50:47] Dave Pengelley: just he's running so many projects for so many clients that he's d never got enough quota. So I was like, why don't you have like a sub per client and that becomes part of your billing to the client? Like if you're doing so much. For them, the cost of you know 150 200 bucks a month on top of your fees is arguably nothing for the productivity boon they get of you having a full sub [51:09] Shawn Hain: Dedicated [51:09] Dave Pengelley: just to [51:10] Shawn Hain: to [51:10] Dave Pengelley: work [51:10] Shawn Hain: them. [51:10] Dave Pengelley: on their stuff. [51:12] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [51:13] Dave Pengelley: Um, [51:13] Shawn Hain: I actually [51:14] Dave Pengelley: which [51:14] Shawn Hain: have to look how that works with the CLI tool if I log out in one session and log in with a different account. Do they both work? I've got to try that now. Thank you. [51:25] Dave Pengelley: yeah, so I know with open AI like With the ChatGPT app. I've done that previously where like I'd hit my limit and I'm on a business account with a couple of seats and you know my wife's got a seat and she never uses any codecs. She just has it so she's got you know full usage in the ChatGPT [51:42] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [51:42] Dave Pengelley: app. Uh and so I've logged out of the codecs app of me and logged in as her, and it's all the same repos. It doesn't care which license is logged in. None of the [51:52] Shawn Hain: Sorry [51:52] Dave Pengelley: memory and [51:53] Shawn Hain: to to to clarify meant having two sessions open with [51:56] Dave Pengelley: oh [51:57] Shawn Hain: different [51:57] Dave Pengelley: that's [51:57] Shawn Hain: accounts [51:57] Dave Pengelley: gonna be [51:57] Shawn Hain: logged [51:58] Dave Pengelley: that that [51:58] Shawn Hain: in. [51:58] Dave Pengelley: that might be tricky in one W. thing. Yeah. [52:00] Shawn Hain: Yeah, it's a send up a VM. [52:03] Dave Pengelley: So [52:04] Shawn Hain: Would be how [52:05] Dave Pengelley: I [52:05] Shawn Hain: I [52:05] Dave Pengelley: know. [52:05] Shawn Hain: handle that so that they're isolated. [52:07] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. I mean with Hermes profiles, you can certainly have logins per Hermes profile. [52:12] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [52:12] Dave Pengelley: And so you could you could auth into one profile but not another. That was one [52:16] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [52:16] Dave Pengelley: of the issues I had with my 30 plus agents. I had too many authors [52:19] Shawn Hain: I think [52:19] Dave Pengelley: to [52:19] Shawn Hain: you [52:19] Dave Pengelley: manage. [52:20] Shawn Hain: manage the auth, yeah. [52:21] Dave Pengelley: I still struggle with that now sometimes with my seven or eight different project agents that I'm running. But [52:26] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [52:26] Dave Pengelley: uh yeah, you know the the idea I'm talking about with the Hermes cloud means each Hermes Hermes Cloud instance just logs into the sub for that particular client instance. [52:34] Shawn Hain: And [52:34] Dave Pengelley: And [52:34] Shawn Hain: you're [52:35] Dave Pengelley: if [52:35] Shawn Hain: never [52:35] Dave Pengelley: you [52:35] Shawn Hain: worried about their data cross-pollinating. [52:38] Dave Pengelley: no, [52:38] Shawn Hain: Because [52:38] Dave Pengelley: no, [52:38] Shawn Hain: that's [52:38] Dave Pengelley: no [52:38] Shawn Hain: probably the [52:39] Dave Pengelley: issue, [52:39] Shawn Hain: in person [52:39] Dave Pengelley: no model [52:40] Shawn Hain: you've [52:40] Dave Pengelley: sharing, [52:40] Shawn Hain: got there. [52:40] Dave Pengelley: stealing tokens off each other. And if it's a [52:44] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [52:44] Dave Pengelley: client where you uh there's multiple projects, they might have two or three Cloud Hermes teams. They could all be using the same sub because they're the same [52:52] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [52:52] Dave Pengelley: client and it's coming up the [52:53] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [52:53] Dave Pengelley: same client's quota. [52:55] Shawn Hain: I [52:55] Dave Pengelley: Um [52:55] Shawn Hain: like that. That's actually really clean, which might [52:57] Dave Pengelley: yeah, [52:57] Shawn Hain: be something I'd [52:58] Dave Pengelley: because [52:58] Shawn Hain: look [52:58] Dave Pengelley: I'm [52:58] Shawn Hain: at for [52:58] Dave Pengelley: doing most of my building in Hermes. The only reason I'm back in Jipity is because Astra um [53:03] Shawn Hain: Isn't [53:03] Dave Pengelley: isn't fully supported [53:04] Shawn Hain: yeah. [53:05] Dave Pengelley: in um Hermes yet. And [53:07] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [53:07] Dave Pengelley: look to its credit, the Codex app's doing a pretty good job. Like I'm not hating it. [53:13] Shawn Hain: Um I just like CLI personally. [53:16] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [53:19] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, I I was doing a lot of stuff in VS Code and having using the terminal, like Hermes in the terminal in VS Code. So I do the split screen. That gave me the ability to have access to all my files. And I could read the markdown files and see things in the in like one panel of VS Code. I had my agent in the other panel. Uh, and that was all pretty good. And I had different color codings for each of my things. As the Hermes desktop app has evolved, I'm spending more time there because it allows me in one application, rather than having eight different VS Code sessions, to jump between things and jump between sessions easily. Just click into different session threads within each profile that I'm dealing with. And it now has a like show. Me, all profiles. So I can see all the sessions across all profiles. So if I am multitasking across different different projects in Hermes, I [54:07] Shawn Hain: Yeah, [54:07] Dave Pengelley: get all [54:07] Shawn Hain: I'll [54:08] Dave Pengelley: of that in one [54:08] Shawn Hain: come back [54:08] Dave Pengelley: thing. [54:09] Shawn Hain: to [54:09] Dave Pengelley: The [54:09] Shawn Hain: the city. [54:09] Dave Pengelley: issue I've had with Hermes is something to watch out for is they've brought in this projects thing. So now they've got, as well as having your profile, you can now run projects within a profile, but the project interface is a little bit opaque. And I've had profiles creating jobs and subagents in a project which is not their project, which is another thing. So I I have been getting that one. Another reason why I want to isolate clients in Hermes Cloud profiles is because even though profiles are meant to be a bit distinct on one machine, it's getting mixed up and it's cross-pollinating subagents to another app, another profile. And then I'm getting project folders where it's just it's becoming a little bit messy on my own desktop. So again, that's why I was curious around your project separation and what you're doing on a Windows environment as well, versus [54:54] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [54:55] Dave Pengelley: Mac, [54:55] Shawn Hain: So [54:55] Dave Pengelley: which is [54:56] Shawn Hain: the [54:56] Dave Pengelley: more common for developers. [54:58] Shawn Hain: the way I handle that in like my actual actual like desktop application is I use [55:03] Dave Pengelley: Are [55:03] Shawn Hain: cowork [55:03] Dave Pengelley: you [55:03] Shawn Hain: a lot and it's [55:04] Dave Pengelley: able be do going that? to to [55:05] Shawn Hain: you have access to these folders and that's it. [55:07] Dave Pengelley: Yep. [55:07] Shawn Hain: And I give them access to the um OneDrive folder that has that client's information in it. So at worst I'm pulling in information from another project I'm working on for them. And if I'm worried about that I just go a level deeper and just go into that project folder. [55:25] Dave Pengelley: Yep. [55:25] Shawn Hain: Um and this W SL environment takes care of itself 'cause I Put it in a box and go, This is the only information you have. [55:33] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, yeah. I um it's interesting because I I for some of my own projects, I've got the files not in the WSL file system, I've got them on my Windows file system. And then you get something writing to them and putting all these weird like character turn line feeds on the end of things and just massive pain working across the two environments sometimes. Um so my homies runs out of WSL, but Uh and I think I told Jippity to use WSL as well because I was just getting so confused trying to use PowerShell commands and even Git Bash and stuff. I was like, no, no, I have WSL. So when you want to run NPM and things like that, do it using WSL. Don't don't try and do everything in PowerShell. [56:15] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [56:16] Dave Pengelley: Um [56:19] Shawn Hain: Start using WSL, outside of it just being cleaner, is the agents keep trying to do Linux style commands that don't work in PowerShell. [56:30] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [56:30] Shawn Hain: And by [56:31] Dave Pengelley: It's [56:31] Shawn Hain: the sounds [56:31] Dave Pengelley: it's [56:31] Shawn Hain: of it, it hasn't gotten any better. [56:33] Dave Pengelley: no. I mean, just to wrap up, um, I I we we haven't talked about it all, but um and maybe uh like I said, Matt's been experimenting with it, but he's not here to talk about it, is Omachi, which is the new super sexy looking Linux build with multipanel displays and stuff, which has AI agents built into the operating system. Yeah, and the the the newest release, I think it's got OpenClaw or Hermes like defaulted in, like with their desktop apps, so you can jump straight in. I am [57:01] Shawn Hain: Sweet. [57:02] Dave Pengelley: super keen for that, but I'm worried that it won't just we'll just have gaps. You know, maybe I can't run restream out of it or, you know, like when I want to do my recordings, OBS is just so powerful and it's not really set up for Linux. So I'm gonna need to dual boot. So back to where we started, if I can get more RAM and a and a I'm apparently I've got two SSD slots in my hard drive in my machine as well. I'll buy another SSD slot. slot and then I'll have all the RAM I can I can eat and heaps more hard discipline space because at the moment WSL is eating up half of my SSD [57:38] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [57:38] Dave Pengelley: and and and my swap file. My swap file is like 32 gig. I'm like so [57:44] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [57:44] Dave Pengelley: if I could put sixty four gig of memory in I'd get so much swap space back. [57:47] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [57:48] Dave Pengelley: Um [57:49] Shawn Hain: Yeah, [57:49] Dave Pengelley: yeah [57:49] Shawn Hain: and [57:49] Dave Pengelley: and [57:50] Shawn Hain: that that's spare SSD. That's literally what my WSL owns. I have a hard drive that is this is WSLs. Everything you write goes in [57:59] Dave Pengelley: I'm not sure [57:59] Shawn Hain: here. [58:00] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [58:00] Shawn Hain: Rather than into my C drive, which is always, always too full too many programs installed. Um but yeah, no, definitely it's I d I I have dual boot, but I'll be honest I haven't spun it up in how long have I been here for? Eight months? Yeah, about 12 months. Um since the WSL now is good enough where you generally don't need it. However, I will say something like Omachi, if you spent the time to really learn it and learn all the shortcuts. And stuff like that, you'll probably see a productivity increase, but it is a time sink [58:35] Dave Pengelley: Well, [58:35] Shawn Hain: first. [58:35] Dave Pengelley: like like like you were saying, like sometimes you but you play with these things and their toys and their distractions, and they don't really drive productivity, but but they're a bit of fun. [58:42] Shawn Hain: Yeah, yeah, [58:43] Dave Pengelley: Um [58:43] Shawn Hain: 100%. It's uh I think I said this in the um call on Fridays. It's I try and give myself a day a month. Just go have a look at what's new in the world and go play, choose something you can go mess around with it, except that you're getting no work done that day, just to learn what's [58:58] Dave Pengelley: there's [58:58] Shawn Hain: new. [58:59] Dave Pengelley: I think I think it's Triomarchi.com. You can download it and will run in a window on Windows for you. So if you if you want to play with it without going the whole hog, [59:07] Shawn Hain: That might be [59:07] Dave Pengelley: you [59:07] Shawn Hain: an [59:07] Dave Pengelley: can [59:07] Shawn Hain: idea. [59:07] Dave Pengelley: play with a windowed version of it. [59:09] Shawn Hain: Cool. [59:11] Dave Pengelley: Um [59:11] Shawn Hain: Definitely worth looking at. [59:12] Dave Pengelley: yeah, I mean, you look at what the the the influencers, the YouTubers, like your network chucks and stuff, and they get right into it and it looks super cool, and they're like so psyched for it, and like, oh, I I want to be psyched for this, but also um and you know, back in the I grew up in the DOS days and I was a shortcut key guy, I still you Use [59:30] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [59:30] Dave Pengelley: my keyboard more above average, even in Windows, but you know, I don't want to give up my mouse altogether. There's a reason why we have point and click interfaces [59:38] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [59:39] Dave Pengelley: too. [59:40] Shawn Hain: Yeah, the the thing I'll say is if you do certain tasks regularly, keyboard shortcuts make sense. Hundred percent. I use them, I've got a handful of things that's like you know, open up this set of programs, do this set of commands. Use them a lot when I was writing reports at uni, because I could never remember the latex syntax. Um [01:00:01] Shawn Hain: Um, [01:00:02] Dave Pengelley: Even even shift command s I use all the time for screenshots. Oh, and I saw someone post this on LinkedIn the other day. On Windows, shift command or shift control shift start, whatever you want to call it, um, shift start t for transcribe will OCR built in the Windows. So if you you did a little like text capture, so shift start s is screenshot, shift start s is text capture. And you can draw a bounding box and it will capture any text image-wise or the actual text in that bounding box. [01:00:40] Shawn Hain: I will [01:00:40] Dave Pengelley: So [01:00:40] Shawn Hain: definitely have to try that. [01:00:42] Dave Pengelley: handy. I didn't know either. I know I use I use a screenshot all the time, but for just pure text capture, um shift Windows T. [01:00:56] Dave Pengelley: And the other one that people don't realize is Windows V for paste. You like a little clipboard history in Windows 11. And so instead of control V, which is just your last thing, if you go Windows V, it pops up a little history of recent [01:01:09] Shawn Hain: That would be so useful. [01:01:14] Dave Pengelley: right. [01:01:14] Shawn Hain: Thank you. I've never as I've never looked into the keyboard shortcuts too much because I don't I use the ones I know. That is very handy because the number of times I copy passwords and usernames out of my password manager. [01:01:27] Dave Pengelley: And [01:01:27] Shawn Hain: If [01:01:27] Dave Pengelley: now [01:01:28] Shawn Hain: I [01:01:28] Dave Pengelley: you'll [01:01:28] Shawn Hain: need [01:01:28] Dave Pengelley: have [01:01:28] Shawn Hain: back [01:01:28] Dave Pengelley: both of [01:01:28] Shawn Hain: to [01:01:28] Dave Pengelley: them in there [01:01:28] Shawn Hain: those. [01:01:29] Dave Pengelley: and you can repaste it. Like [01:01:30] Shawn Hain: Yeah, [01:01:30] Dave Pengelley: with with [01:01:30] Shawn Hain: that's [01:01:30] Dave Pengelley: the with [01:01:30] Shawn Hain: it. [01:01:30] Dave Pengelley: the with the start V. Um, [01:01:33] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [01:01:33] Dave Pengelley: start dot is your emojis as well. And then I think that's one of the little panels, that whole like insert text thing. So start dot is your emoji panel, and then across there you'll see little buttons, and one of them is the clipboard button, which is the one you just saw. But anyway, that's your that's your little power tip to wrap up the AI operators [01:01:49] Shawn Hain: Thanks. [01:01:49] Dave Pengelley: with some Windows operating system tips. [01:01:52] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [01:01:53] Dave Pengelley: Um that that's been the show. Everyone, thank you for if you've you've stayed with us for the full hour or just jumped in for the end, thank you. Uh this This is AI operators. We're just actually just real dudes chatting about how we're using these tools and these systems and our real wins and our real experiences. Uh we're not here to hype and say Astra's the gonna it's AGI, AGI is here. I'm like, it's another AI that, you know, I um I'm working, I've got a I'm working on a system and doing some upgrades to it. And it said, um, you should deploy this to your your staging dev database first, not your production. I was like, I don't have one of those yet. And he goes, Oh, okay, so go create a brand new project, and then uh we'll migrate all of your SQL changes into that, and we'll do a full set, like like, and I'm like, Superbase has like branching and stuff, right? Why aren't we using some kind of integrated like dev linked dev environment? He goes, Oh, you're right, actually, you can branch a thing in Superbase. You should probably do that. I should have missed that I missed that. And this is Astra. So [01:02:55] Shawn Hain: It's how how do I say staging is the correct solution to all [01:03:06] Dave Pengelley: Yeah, it [01:03:10] Dave Pengelley: right. Right. Can you imagine? Like you go and create a complete separate superbassed project and then trying to keep them in sync versus using a proper branched integrated staging thing off the one project. I'm like, what are you even doing, Astro? You should know better than this. [01:03:24] Shawn Hain: Yeah, I I haven't really used the branch staging thing on um Superbase [01:03:28] Dave Pengelley: Superbase. [01:03:28] Shawn Hain: because I normally use local um [01:03:31] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [01:03:32] Shawn Hain: SQL Postgres stuff. [01:03:34] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. [01:03:34] Shawn Hain: Then my question is does it have its own data set? Because the one thing I don't put into staging environments is real data. [01:03:40] Dave Pengelley: Yeah. Yep, that's fair. Um, I'm still learning all that because I haven't followed up with the device yet because I got distracted with other projects. Um, [01:03:48] Shawn Hain: Yeah, that's trust me, there's so many things you can do. [01:03:53] Dave Pengelley: yep. [01:03:53] Shawn Hain: Great. [01:03:53] Dave Pengelley: All right. Well, thanks, Sean. Thank you, uh Australia and the world. This is our operators. Make sure you like and subscribe. Drop comments, uh, let us know your questions, and look and keep an eye out for field notes. I dropped a field note on Friday and it's had 0.0% click-through rate. I don't believe that. I think YouTube's lying to me. But because it thinks no one's clicking on it, which, like, you know, it's had some views, so someone's clicked on it. Um, [01:04:20] Shawn Hain: Someone's watching it from somewhere. [01:04:22] Dave Pengelley: yeah, whereas, you know, I it's weird, and that this is the algorithm issue, right? And this is why you need engagement, you need people to like and subscribe because two video, two, I've done three field. Notes now. The first one has had you know over a thousand views, and then it feels like it's throttled everyone since then, going, Oh, you always you were way too successful. We need to, we need to pull that back and restrict you. Maybe you did something dodgy to go so to have your video take off so well. Like, I know they do that sort of stuff. Like, if you've this channel's been live content, it hasn't been huge views, and so you get one piece that goes crazy, they're like, Oh, you must have done something dodgy. We're gonna restrict all your future content. It's like, come [01:04:56] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [01:04:57] Dave Pengelley: on, [01:04:57] Shawn Hain: And [01:04:57] Dave Pengelley: YouTube. [01:04:57] Shawn Hain: then and and they do it quietly without you knowing that it's [01:05:00] Dave Pengelley: With yeah, yeah. They're not even saying, hey, you've had. Ah, anyway. All right. Well, thank you, sir. We'll uh see round and I should finish with our usual [01:05:12] Shawn Hain: Yeah. [01:05:12] Dave Pengelley: farewell.